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Game farmers, champions of wildlife

Oak

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Game farmed elk aren't spreading CWD to wild populations, wild pops are spreading it to game farms, right?Link

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The South Dakota State Veterinarian announced on August 16, 2002 that CWD had been detected in a 3-year old bull elk from a private ranch in Custer County. The discovery was made as result of routine slaughter surveillance. This represents the first case of CWD in captive elk in that state since 1997. An adjacent herd was destroyed 51 months previously due to CWD. The 3-year old bull was from a double-fenced herd, which had been quarantined for 4 years as a precaution due to fence-line contact with the destroyed herd. Following 52 months of surveillance on deaths of all elk 16 months and older with no evidence of disease, the herd was not considered at risk. The elk herd (approximately 140 animals) was placed under quarantine with the intent to depopulate. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Game farmers are willing to do what's necessary to protect wild herds from disease spread by captive animals, or vise versa, right?
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Mark Taylor, a Helena attorney and spokesman for the Montana Alternative Livestock Producers, said elk and deer ranch operators believe that state regulations are reasonable and achievable. Add too many requirements, such as double-fencing, and he said it would become cost-prohibitive to run a game farm and ultimately would shut people out.

"It all goes back to reasonableness," Taylor said. "The producers have an interest not only in their respective interests but also they are very concerned about Montana's environment as well. As with any industry, the goal of the producers is to have an industry that is responsible and have producers that are responsible, both from a management and a business perspective."

Wildlife advocates say that if game farms aren't prohibited, the state should crack down further on the industry, especially since the deadly chronic wasting disease was confirmed to exist in Montana. For example, they want mandatory double-fencing around existing game farms, want a stop on new licenses until there is a test for chronic wasting disease in live animals and want a block on intrastate and interstate transportation of game farm animals until the test is available.

But the game farm industry said those additional requirements would be extreme, especially since chronic wasting disease isn't limited to their operations. It says new rules were implemented this year imposing such requirements as tougher record-keeping, more stringent fencing requirements and better animal tagging.

http://www.billingsgazette.com/region/991212_reg01.html <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>An estimated 30 percent of deer farms participate in a voluntary CWD testing program. Solin added that many deer farmers are cooperative, but some are not. That makes the investigation difficult.

He called for all new farms to install 10-foot fences, and for farms not enrolled in the voluntary CWD monitoring program to double-fence their properties.

Currently fence regulations for elk, red, fallow, and sika deer are the responsibility of the township. Solin said fences are not being maintained and fence inspection should be returned to DNR.

Other requested changes include:
• Mandatory reporting of escaped deer and elk;
• Increased penalties for the illegal release of captive deer and elk.

Diana Susen, secretary and treasurer of the Wisconsin Commercial Deer and Elk Farmers Association, warned the committee against over-reaction to CWD and unreasonable restrictions that could kill the fledgling industry.

She criticized the news media for the "garbage" about CWD, and said the news media is "killing our business."
Susen said members of the association have been in the forefront of good animal husbandry and health practices, and they believe DATCP is best qualified to regulate practices for deer and elk inside fences.

Ott told Susen he supported the industry, but that her comments gave him concerns and he had the impression she was "in denial."

"With less than 40 percent of the industry a member of your association, and thus doing voluntary CWD testing, there are a whole bunch of folks out there creating problems for you," Ott said.
http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction/news.detail/ID/de3e0098171169c4eef256 b214f1504f
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The Colorado Wildlife Commission reestablished Division of Wildlife authority over the importation of deer and elk Jan. 10 and required that imported animals be disease free for at least 60 months to reduce the risk of chronic wasting disease entering the state.

The vote was unanimous.

The Division will now share authority over deer and elk importation with the Colorado Department of Agriculture. Agriculture officials still have lead responsibility to assure that animals are not infected with other diseases and to quarantine deer and elk to prevent the spread of disease.

Agriculture officials and representatives of the Colorado Elk Breeders Association favored a steeped approach that would phase in the 60-month requirement over the next three years. But Division Veterinarian Mike Miller, one of the nation’s foremost authorities on CWD, recommended the 60-month requirement.

“A 36-month requirement is not enough time to assure that animals don’t have chronic wasting disease,” Miller told the Commission. “Sixty months is a better, more conservative period for surveillance to occur before animals are imported into the state.”
Link<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Game farmers willingly follow the regulations put in place to limit the impacts they have on wild populations and the environment surrounding their operations, right?
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>A Wisconsin state inspection of private deer farms, prompted by the discovery of chronic wasting disease, found that 436 white-tailed deer escaped into the wild, officials said Tuesday. The Department of Natural Resources found that captive deer have escaped from one-third of the state's 550 deer farms over the lifetime of the operations. The agency also uncovered hundreds of violations and has sought a total of 60 citations or charges against deer farm operators.
Link<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> The agency has refused to renew the license at one of Rammell's two operations, the 1,000-acre Idaho Mountain Elk Ranch about 35 miles east of Rexburg. Such rules violations as failing to adequately maintain fences and provide proper holding facilities for inspections allegedly have become so flagrant that the potential penalties could total $781,000. "This is not a single incident. This is an ongoing issue that has continued to get more serious," said Dr. Bob Hillman, a veterinarian and head of the Department of Agriculture's Division of Animal Industries.

Rammell and his supporters consider it a principled stand against unreasonable government oversight.
Link<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Game farms have no effect on wild populations or sportsmen who hunt wild populations, right?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The Del Norte (Anta Grande) facility is double-fenced. The total cost for fencing was approximately $30,000 (paid for by the Division of Wildlife). Division personnel killed 12 deer and 8 elk near this facility to monitor the potential for the disease to spread into the wild. Nearly 90 hunter-killed and road-killed animals were also collected for testing. A contract with the owner of the Cowdrey (Trophy Mountain) facility allowed the Division to proceed with contracting for the construction of a double perimeter fence. Construction of a second perimeter fence (approximately 10 miles) has been largely completed. The cost for the project is approximately $300,000.(is this how you want your hunting license dollars spent?) Fencing is a costly undertaking compared to the value of the lease for the State Trust Land. The 640 acres of State Trust Land associated with the Cowdrey facility is being leased by the elk breeder for less than $1,000 per year. Approximately one hundred sixty nine (169) wild deer and at least two elk were killed last winter inside the Cowdrey fence. At least three wild deer were also taken outside of the facility. Several hundred captive elk were released into this facility in 2002 and later in August a few wild mule deer were observed trapped within the enclosure.
Link<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Twenty-two elk that escaped Sept. 17 from a game farm in Fergus County are being hunted by Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks officials.(your license dollars at work)Link<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>In 1994, Wallace completed the ranch’s fourth expansion to include the 1,800-acre upper enclosure and the lodge. Under Montana law, the "public’s wildlife’ - that is, any free-roaming wild game animal - must not be permanently enclosed by private fences, so Wallace and state game officials undertook an effort over several weeks to displace wild big game from the area.

Wallace hired local teenagers to run through rough country, hazing animals - including 775 mule deer - to the outside of the fencing perimeter. The state and Wallace each hired a helicopter to assist. When the drive was over, state game wardens had to shoot 49 mule deer that had were trapped behind the new fence. The wardens called the project a "mixed success," at a cost to the state of $26,000.Link<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Game farmers treat their animals with the utmost respect, right?
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>And then there’s the "velveting" process, in which Butler worked, and which he found repellent. Velvet antlers, which sell for $60 a pound in south Asia, are ground into powder and used in tonics for common maladies and as an aphrodisiac. During the antler harvest, bull elk are driven one by one down a narrow corridor to the ranch’s handling facilities. At the end of the corridor, the bull stands trapped in a chute as a hydraulic vise tightens around his body and lifts him off the floor, while a separate vise closes around his head.

This, says Butler, prepares the elk for a dose of electric current. Ranch hands use electricity to immobilize the animal in place of anesthetic because Asian buyers complain that drugs contaminate the product. The ranch hands attach an electrode to the bull’s lip and another to the skin around his anus. Then they flip a switch, directing current through the animal. They tie a tourniquet where the antler joins the skull, and amputate the antlers with a handsaw. Blood and tissue stain the plywood walls around the chute.Link<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Game farmers are standing up for our rights as hunters, so we should support them in their endeavors, right? Here's a quote from Ron Walker, president of the Colorado Elk Breeders Association, when defending elk ranch shoots. Does it sound like he's standing up for us?: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"Although the elk-hunting ranches have been much criticized, they're actually more ethical than most other recreational hunts. Not only are the elk running free on tracts of land encompassing as much as four or five square miles, but professional guides also supervise hunts to ensure an accurate and precise kill. We don't allow wounded elk to run away and suffer extended, painful deaths, as happens so often in unsupervised hunts."Link<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those game farm hunters are just like you and I, right? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Earl Butler, who worked as a foreman at Big Velvet Ranch until he quit his job last year, knows the operation well. "I left the Big Velvet because I am a hunter," he says, "and what they do up there is not a hunt."

Butler tells of guiding one ranch client who refused to leave the cab of a ranch pickup until the elk he wanted to shoot was driven on the road at close range. Another client shot a bull elk in the lungs, but didn’t kill it. For reasons Butler has never understood, the man refused to kill the animal with a follow-up shot. The elk staggered down a hillside to the ranch fence beside a public road, where it stood before passersby, blood spraying from its nostrils with every breath for 20 minutes before collapsing.Link<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

C'mon hunters! Let's get behind these guys! We need to band together or we're all doomed!

Oak
 
Great stuff Oak, just about sums it up.

What I believe is any state that has wild elk should never have elk behind the wire.

You hit most of the reasons, but for me the key reasons are as follows:

1. spread of CWD, Brucellosis

2. Fencing off large areas in migration corridors and/or crucial winter range.

3. Spending license dollars to ensure that there is compliance of STATE regulations on game farms (MT hunters spent nearly 2 million on such costs). That money was meant for wildlife.

4. Genetic alteration of wild elk through breeding with domestic hybrids. Theres so little regulation of the elk farming industry, that many of the elk are red deer/elk hybrids. They escape all the time from game farms, everywhere. That is a huge problem, I dont want mutant elk, I want pure strain Rocky Mountain elk.

5. The ethical issue, at least in the case of Montana. The "elk hunts" on the game farms there were not in any way fair chase. The enclosures were tiny, and success was a for sure deal.

That being said, I dont have a problem with a state like Florida or Texas, etc. having elk in pens. Most of the issues above are really of no concern in such states as they boast no, or very few wild elk. Because there are lots of states like Texas and Florida, that have no wild herds, let those that want to blast a domestic elk go there for a hunt. But, please refrain from shoving game farms down my throat and the throat of the wild elk I hunt in MT, WY, etc.

I think thats a fair compromise.
 
DID you spend all that time making this post for me ?

AHHHhhhhh... thank you
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FREE THE CHICKENS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
You're right, I should have put it in SI. Maybe one of the admins will move it.

Sorry it's boring to you, but I'm sure that those who care a little more about wildlife will find it interesting. Buzz brought up some good points...I guess I could have made it a little longer.
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Oak
 
Buzz, if I am reading this right, you think it is OK in one place but not in another, basicly as long as it does not directly affect you. Is that what you are trying to say or am I reading this the wrong way?
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Elk Hunter,

I think Buzz was saying it's up to each state to decide how to deal with this issue. I'm not going to tell Texas how to run their business. I hope most Texan's are smart enough not to tell Montana how to run our business. Remember, cattle, sheep, hogs were all once wild too. If Texas wants to domesticate elk it's their choice, who am I to stop them. I am glad however, to live in Montana, where have decided to keep them wild.

Thanks Oak for a good post.

Paul
 
Well if I am not mistaken he said:
What I believe is any state that has wild elk should never have elk behind the wire.

But, please refrain from shoving game farms down my throat and the throat of the wild elk I hunt in MT, WY, etc.

and that is why I asked the question to Buzz. I do agree with you that it should be up to each state to decide how to deal with it, whether they have free range elk or not, and yes another state should not tell Montana or any other how to run their business. If Texas wants them, fine, that does not make it wrong, just like Montana does not want them.
 
Oak, What are ya tryin' to do---stir up trouble!?
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Thanks for starting a real good topic. I hope the guys up in the elk section will come down here and post some replies.
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<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-25-2004 22:09: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
 
Elky, as I understand it, he's saying that there shouldn't be fenced operations in states that have a wild population. It's OK for them to be in Texas or Florida because there aren't wild populations to infect with their diseases and so forth; they keep whatever they have to themselves. In Montana, when a penned elk escapes he mingles with wild elk, and any funk he has goes with him. Or that's how I understand his statement, anyway.
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Elkhunter, you are reading my post wrong, and frankly, your smug approach to asking a question really sucks. Let the spanking begin.

Personally, I couldnt give a shit less about how domestic elk effect YOU, ME, or the DUDES that blast them in pens.

However, what I do care about is the health of elk herds in states that have wild populations being negatively impacted by mutant, crossbred, disease ridden, domesticated what were at one time elk. That I do have a problem with, and rightfully so as anyone with a vested interest in wildlife should have.

I think I'm pretty reasonable on my approach, ban elk farms in all states that have wild elk, let them have penned elk in States like Texas. That way:

1. My public elk herds are not at risk.

2. Every person who wants to hunt domestic elk behind the wire can still do so, with no risk to my wild herds.

I dont think a single person has offered up a better solution.

By the way, why do you suppose Wyoming outlawed elk farms? Why dont you ask Oak if you dont know the answer.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-26-2004 08:42: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>
 
Buzz- Just a question to clarify, would you then support a game farm in MT if no native species were hunted or there? Say like yaks or water buffalo, axis deer. Assuming of course that any of the spp. were not vectors of diseases that could infect the native spp.
 
Pointer, I dont think thats solely my decision to make in any state. However, it should be left up to each States citizenship to decide. In making that decision I believe that hunters/citizens should really wiegh the impacts of enclosures themselves and potential conflicts with native wildlife (see my reasons above).

I'd vote against allowing game farms in most of the West, because frankly the game farm industry has a piss poor track record (see Oaks post). I just think that theres more than enough opportunity for exotics in Texas, Florida, etc. But, thats just what I believe. I have stated many times that I really dont have anything against the game farms in Texas, but have legitimate reasons for not wanting them all over Montana, Wyoming, etc.

Paul, Bison are classified as livestock, thats why you can still blast them. I-143 banned the shooting of animals classified as "big-game".
 
I think farmyard hunting sets a bad standard.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Just a question to clarify, would you then support a game farm in MT if no native species were hunted or there? Say like yaks or water buffalo, axis deer. Assuming of course that any of the spp. were not vectors of diseases that could infect the native spp. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I am also against bring exotics into an area for the purpose of hunting them.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-26-2004 14:35: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]</font>
 
They've been successful down here for over 60 years. No problems not dealt with, we have canned hunts legally defined and outlawed in this state and we have lots of wildlife ranches with hunts. There's huntable species here that have gone extinct in the homelands. Live blackbucks from here have been sent back to Pakistan to bolster the home herds.

Other places, people seem to think the sky is falling. Good management is the key and it really seems to work here, so maybe the naysayers need to learn some things from the places where it works well. Wildlife ranchers are the champions of wildlife here. There's over 50 huntable species here and they have some of the biggest and best of each.

I'm sure the wildlife corridor issue Buzz mentioned is a special issue up north, but it seems easily doable to make sure there are protected corridors for elk and mule deer migrations.
 
Buzz,

Do the folks at Jellystone know they have about 4000 head of livestock roaming their property? I don't see a difference between elk and bison. Maybe we could get wolves classified as livestock?

Paul
 
Thanks Buzz. I was just curious and my feelings mirror yours as well.

TB- I guess it depends on how one defines exotic. Pheasants? Chukar? I'm not a complete supporter of game farms, but I would rather see exotics on 'em than native species.
 
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