FWS Run Rough Shod Over Tribes

[BigHornRam]

Nemont,

I said it was a good "bleeder" letter. Thought you of all people would know what I ment by it. Same bleeding heart liberal crap you heard when the government wanted to stop paying for displace Katrina victims housing right before Christmas last year.

This one will be going to court, and the feds will want some good p. r. along with iron clad documentation that the Indians "work values" were not up to snuff. If not, it will be costing the taxpayers some serious cash IMO. So far the press has done a good job promoting the Indians as the "victims".

 

[Nemont]

I understood exactly what you were saying just can not seem to see where it mattered

 

[BuzzH]

BHR,

You're a mental midget.

Racist remarks?

Not hardly.

The tribes I've worked with all had much different agendas and much different work ethic than any other agency I've worked for or with.

Thats a fact, not a racist statement. The way the tribes conduct business is very different in particular with regard to the tribal councils. Most every decision has to be agreed upon by all the council members. They work on THEIR schedule and when working in affiliation with the tribes, you have to be aware of that and be real flexible.

I have no idea what was said, what went on, etc. with this Bison Range deal. Hard to say who's at fault.

My point about the way the tribes work was not a racist remark. I find it pretty odd what you CHOOSE to read into everyone elses posts.

Get a clue.

 

[Oak]

They work on THEIR schedule and when working in affiliation with the tribes, you have to be aware of that and be real flexible.

I found that out when working for the state and trying to get permission to access areas on one of the reservations here. If we made a plan to meet at their office at 9am, we were generally hoping somebody would show up that day. Then, when somebody did finally show up, they likely had no idea why we were there. Often it meant a return trip the next day, week or our next swing through the area. They're just not all that concerned with the government's concerns, schedules, plans, etc., and that's their prerogative.

 

[BigHornRam]

Buzz

So what kind of "work ethic" are you used to dealing with? Does that include voicing your political views on the computer all day on the tax payers dime? I'm sure you wouldn't be choosing your words as carefully if the "locals" were from say Anaconda or similar towns. Most here understand what you mean when you use terms like "work ethic" and "work values".

 

[BigHornRam]

I found that out when working for the state and trying to get permission to access areas on one of the reservations here. If we made a plan to meet at their office at 9am, we were generally hoping somebody would show up that day. Then, when somebody did finally show up, they likely had no idea why we were there. Often it meant a return trip the next day, week or our next swing through the area. They're just not all that concerned with the government's concerns, schedules, plans, etc., and that's their prerogative.

Oak, that sounds identical to a lot of my experiences dealing with government agents. Whats your point? Dealing with Indian goverment is just as ineffiecient as dealing with white man government?

 

[JoseCuervo]

BHR,
Where do you find all your conspiracy theories and your fear of the government? Have you ever considered getting an iPod, or at least a CD player, so you don't have to listen to AM radio all the time.

Might I suggest a little Akon to take your mind off the black helicopters?

 

[AZ402]

Might I suggest a little Akon to take your mind off the black helicopters?

Akon? I thought for sure your Ipod was filled with Freddy Fenders greatest hits........

 

[JoseCuervo]

Akon? I thought for sure your Ipod was filled with Freddy Fenders greatest hits........

BTW, when are you sending me that copy of your Fergie CD you promised?

 

[AZ402]

Fergalicious.

 

[BuzzH]

BHR,

If you ever got out of your bunker and actually spent some time working with various state, federal, tribal, and private landowners...maybe I wouldnt have to explain simple things to you.

Basically that all agencies and individuals work differently. Doesnt mean one is any better or worse than the other...just that priorities, values, and whats important vary between individuals and agencies.

Put any two agencies in charge of the same thing (like the Bison Range), you may have some problems. Apparently thats what happened and as per usual each side is blaming the other.

Typical.

 

[Oak]

BHR, Buzz didn't have a hard time figuring out what I meant.

Basically that all agencies and individuals work differently. Doesnt mean one is any better or worse than the other...just that priorities, values, and whats important vary between individuals and agencies.

 

[BigHornRam]

Earlier Buzz said this....

"The only mistake here is that the USFWS should have never even entertained the idea of giving management of the Bison Range to the CSKT."

Unfortunately for Buzz, and the usfws, there is legislation that allows for this......

The management agreement, which was signed two years ago, allowed the tribes to take on duties at the refuge under provisions of the Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act. The legislation allows tribes to apply to manage certain federal public lands where they can show a cultural, historical or geographic connection.

Your a big "by the book" guy Buzz. This was all done "by the book". Looks like there was plenty of the usual opposition to this from the beginning. No wonder why the Indian's failed.......

"The refuge management change was opposed by 129 refuge managers, by nearly 50 different environmental groups, and by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility.

PEER's refuge keeper, Grady Hocutt, was a wildlife refuge manager for 30 years.

He says the agreement was a poor idea pushed by political appointees under duress and could have set a precedent harmful to the entire national wildlife refuge system."

 

[BuzzH]

BHR,

There may be legislation that ALLOWS for it...doesnt mean the USFWS is required to share jurisdiction of a refuge.

 

[BigHornRam]

Interesting first hand observations about this issue.

National Bison Range / Ranchers defend tribe
By VINCE DEVLIN of the Missoulian



RONAN - From a Jeep, and out of about 50 head of bison in one pasture, rancher Bernard Hakes points out the 3-year-old heifer and three yearlings he purchased from the National Bison Range a week ago - bison that an opponent of tribal involvement at the refuge claimed had not been fed for a number of days.

“When I got them, they were fat and sassy,” Hakes says. “That story that the tribes were not feeding them was B.S.”

Hakes and another longtime volunteer at the annual bison roundup, Polson architect Paul Bishop, have come forward the week after the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service abruptly ended its agreement with the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes for shared management of the National Bison Range.


Neither Hakes nor Bishop are tribal members, but they don't think CSKT was given a fair shake at the refuge.

“I quite frankly don't give a damn who runs the Bison Range, but if Fish and Wildlife is going to take it over for a reason, let's let it be the truth,” Hakes says. “I could bitch about the tribes over other things and spend a couple of hours. But when it comes to the Bison Range, there's been no neglect, and the proof is in the animal.”

Bishop says he feels National Bison Range project manager Steve Kallin “has purposefully created an environment of distrust, animosity and misinformation. The FWS, under his direction, has sought to try the tribes in the court of public opinion, while doing everything in their power to sabotage the co-management relationship behind the scenes.”

Kallin was not available for comment Thursday, but deputy project leader Bill West vigorously defended him.

“He's one of the finest humans, and administrators, I've ever seen,” West says of Kallin. “In 26 years, I've never worked for anyone more honorable. I'd follow Steve Kallin anywhere.”

Bishop, meantime, called for Kallin to be reassigned and another administrator to be brought in “who can oversee a fair and balanced assessment of the tribes' capabilities.”

Bishop says that while his exposure to the Bison Range is limited to two to three days a year when he volunteers at the roundup, he thinks it provides a good window into the work the tribes have done there since the co-management plan went into effect in the fall of 2005.

“I have, from the beginning, felt that the way FWS conducted the roundup had serious problems,” Bishop wrote in a letter published Thursday in the weekly Valley Journal. “It was always heavy on the ‘cowboy' and it seemed the welfare of the bison extended only to their most basic physical needs.”

Bishop, whose family has volunteered at the roundup for more than 20 years and who himself has been involved for more than 10, says that over time the bison became more savvy to the methods of FWS riders.

“The only FWS response was to run the animals harder, getting them even more stressed and worn out,” Bishop says. “The common method, once all the ‘easy' animals had been chased in by riders, was to retire the horses and bring out a FWS Jeep. The driver would then chase the remaining stubborn bison, horn blaring, until they submitted.”

It sometimes involved ramming the bison with the front bumper, Bishop says, and in 2004 - the last year FWS had sole control of the roundup - an adult bison was rammed from behind, its leg was broken, and it had to be killed.

But when the tribes came on board, that changed, Bishop says.

“The tribes' first roundup was a huge success, which was completed in two days with time to spare,” Bishops says.

“I know it sounds odd, but I believe the animals noticed a difference, too,” he says. “They were clearly much calmer and less stressed. The riders did a fantastic job of handling the animals with care and everyone else followed suit. The bison were processed through with a level of compassion and patience that was definitely lacking in the old FWS cowboy days.”

Bishop says his jaw dropped when Kallin glossed over the success of the roundup afterward.

“I am not sure why he won't tell you this,” Bishop says he told the roundup staff after Kallin left, “but that was the best roundup in the last 10 years, maybe ever.”

West says the Fish and Wildlife Service has always praised the tribes' work at the annual roundup, and it was other areas over the course of the past year where work was done less than satisfactorily or not performed - much of which was documented in a critical (and controversial) performance report.

“The big elephant on the table that never gets talked about is that the tribes want the land back,” West says. “But whether the tribes can run a national wildlife refuge the right way is the only thing on the negotiating table.”

He credited FWS biologist Lee Jones with discontinuing use of a Jeep to herd bison into corrals, as well as developing the system that allows roundup workers to pass a wand over implanted computer chips in the scale area to get information on each animal, without driving them into a squeeze chute.

And, he says, she's also responsible for the use of hydraulic squeeze chutes at the roundup that are easier on the animals that are directed there than the old chutes were.

“That's who Lee Jones is,” West says. “The best thing to happen to bison here in a while. Paul gives credit to the tribes for things that had more to do with Lee.”

But Bishop says the biologist was “particularly agitated” at the roundup.

“She snapped at several tribal staff members and I heard her say several times, ‘That's not my job' or ‘Talk to the tribes,' ” Bishop says. “I don't want to over-dramatize the events, but I do need to clearly stress that the level of condescending and insulting behavior by several FWS staff toward the tribal staff was very obvious.”

West says the tribes made it clear from the beginning that “they wanted credit for the jobs they did, and didn't want us to do their jobs.” The tribes, he adds, do deserve credit in other areas at the roundup.

“They added a new dimension, showing how if you're patient with the most stubborn critters, you can actually walk them into the corrals,” West says. “We tried their method, and it took an hour, but it worked. It was a positive thing that had never been tried before.”

Hakes says he employs similar tactics on his ranch, using what he calls “Judas cows” to move the bison where he needs to.

“I've got three pet cows I feed out of a bucket, and I'll use them to lead in the other buffalo,” Hakes says. “Buffalo lead better than they drive.”

The Fish and Wildlife Service, he says, is simply protecting its turf from the tribes, who had been in negotiations with the Department of Interior to take over full control of management at the Bison Range when the plug was pulled on the Annual Funding Agreement that allowed for the co-management plan.

“There's no reason (CSKT) can't run it as good as anybody else,” Hakes says. “I realize I'm endangering my working relationship with the Bison Range, but fair is fair.”

“To me, they can run it better,” Bishop says. “Just the last two years at the roundup, how things have changed, proves that. If the tribes are as bad as the Fish and Wildlife Service says they are, why don't they stand back and let them fail on their own?”

 

[mtmiller]

Yawn, yawn....Got anything more interesting for today?

 

[BigHornRam]

Nope. That's all the "Fair and Balanced" reporting from me for the day...."chubs".

 

[mtmiller]

Now that's funny

 

[Cameron Hunt]

Oak you said "They're just not all that concerned with the government's concerns, schedules, plans, etc., and that's their prerogative."

Can you blame them? They have been lied to and mistreated by the U.S. Govt. for far too long. I dont blame them for doing things "Their" way.

On another subject of unfairness, how about the mining for uranium in the South West U.S. on Tribal Land and then leaving the tailings laying about so when it rains they enter the local water sheds. Now with the soaring price of uranium, these same mining co.'s want back in to make a buck. The tribes have declined to let them in. And the mining co's are taking this to the supreme courts.
The cancer rates in these areas have sky rocketed. But its not the mining or U.S. Govt.'s problem is it?

In my opinion "ALL" tribal members should close all "Their" land and tell the U.S. Govt to want in one hand and shit in the other and see which gets full first.

Now I know that we are not all going to agree with everything that every race does. There are a few things that I dont agree with. But it is their damn right to do as they please.

How many more times are we as a people going to let the Native people of this country get the short end of the deal?