Future Elk Herd Numbers

[Westelker]

On 2 Nov 2023 Colorado Parks & Wildlife published a news release stating that current elk herd numbers may not be sustainable over the next 20 years. Release stated that cow/calf ratio has dropped from 60 to mid-to upper 30s. That means herds today are less resilient. CPW listed five problems facing the herds. Fences, housing developments, etc.. What's interesting to me is they neglected to mention or list natural predators' such as bears, coyotes, mtn. lions and the re-introduction of the wolfs to the western slope. A wildlife biologist told the commissioners that "there's only so much officials can do." Why cant' the CPW admit that these predators are a large part of the problem (they always have been). Same threat to the cattle, ask any rancher on the west slope. Just wondering what the HT community thinks.

 

[more_cowbell]

Sounds like thats the start of the path that Eastern Oregon has already traveled. Hound hunting for lions and bears had been banned by voter initiative in the 90s, then wolves moved in. So many wolves in fact, that Oregon is now donating some to CO.

Elk and deer numbers in several NE Oregon units continued to drop, and it felt for a long time ODFW was reluctant to admit predators kill elk and deer, or even change the latter’s behavior.

Like predators pushing remaining game animals to lower elevations and out of the mountains/NF. Earlier this year an ODFW biologist volunteered that a reason for that, might be due to “climate change”, but said they had to study it more.

I hope CO doesnt make the same “head in the sand” / “our hands are tied by the will of the people via ballot initiative” mistakes that Oregon has made.

 

[nrpate05]

Without the initial five issues, the predators don't matter nearly as much. When things start adding up, every little bit counts.

 

[grasshopper]

Where is the news release? Can't find it here:

News Releases

cpw.state.co.us

 

[Oak]

Where is the news release? Can't find it here:

News Releases

cpw.state.co.us

I think it was an article about a meeting.

Colorado wildlife officials say elk herd numbers may not be sustainable over the next 20 years

There are places in Eagle County where there seem to be plenty of elk. But the long-term survival of those herds is in question. Colorado Parks and Wildlife is currently working on a 10-year herd...

www.vaildaily.com

 

[ismith]

Woolfphs gotta eat.

 

[Oak]

I think it was an article about a meeting.

Colorado wildlife officials say elk herd numbers may not be sustainable over the next 20 years

There are places in Eagle County where there seem to be plenty of elk. But the long-term survival of those herds is in question. Colorado Parks and Wildlife is currently working on a 10-year herd...

www.vaildaily.com

Follow-up article this morning.

How can Eagle County save its declining elk population?

Earlier this month, the Vail Daily reported that, while elk may seem to be doing better, there is still significant cause for concern about the future of Eagle County’s elk population. In 1995, the elk...

www.vaildaily.com

 

[bayoublaster7527]

I thought the articles were pretty good. Definitely an issue that needs more exposure. Fragmentation and loss of habitat along with pressure on calving areas are negatively affecting elk herds in Colorado. However, CPW is probably hesitant to call out lack of predator management as a factor due to pressure from the highest levels of state governance. The Governor and CPW Director (along with some Commissioners) are seeking to replace the North American Model of Wildlife Management with a concept of “mutualism”. The leading proponent of “mutualism” is the organization “Wildlife for All” and they have stated on numerous occasions that hunters/hunting is not required or even wanted within their “mutualism” concept of wildlife management. Predators will effectively and more compassionately manage all wildlife. So it begs to reason that Colorado officials would selectively remove predator management from any discussion related to elk herds.

 

[DRAFTSTUD]

Well, you can't build a subdivision on a Mountainside for the average person. But you can build down on the low areas, like the areas Mule Deer and Elk need to migrate or to Rut. This was set into play many decades before we had the boom of Elk numbers and the crash of the Mule Deer from the snows in the late 70s I believe. We have set up right where the animals need to be to survive. That will be $.02. John

 

[SAJ-99]

Why cant' the CPW admit that these predators are a large part of the problem (they always have been).

Be careful. Hunters are predators too. That point has been brought up here in WA. Slippery slope.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Be careful. Hunters are predators too. That point has been brought up here in WA. Slippery slope.

Valid point and hunters should be careful but I would point out that hunters can be effectively managed and regulated in their taking of prey. Agencies can dictate when, where, and exactly how many animals a hunter takes. No way to regulate any of those things with a wolf, mtn lion, or bear.

 

[SAJ-99]

Valid point and hunters should be careful but I would point out that hunters can be effectively managed and regulated in their taking of prey. Agencies can dictate when, where, and exactly how many animals a hunter takes. No way to regulate any of those things with a wolf, mtn lion, or bear.

I think that is their point. Get rid of hunting and let nature take care of itself. Whatever that may look like. I don't think they really care how many elk there are. I assume they just figure it won't be zero because predators are self-regulated by nature, while hunters are not.

 

[Oak]

I thought the articles were pretty good. Definitely an issue that needs more exposure. Fragmentation and loss of habitat along with pressure on calving areas are negatively affecting elk herds in Colorado. However, CPW is probably hesitant to call out lack of predator management as a factor due to pressure from the highest levels of state governance.

What lack of predator management would you say is contributing to this elk decline? CPW has been handing out bear tags like candy at Halloween.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

What lack of predator management would you say is contributing to this elk decline? CPW has been handing out bear tags like candy at Halloween.

I probably could have stated this better, CPW may be hesitant to call out high levels of predation (from lions, bears and very soon wolves) as a factor in declining elk populations. As stated in the article, CPW can only do so much. They can’t make people harvest bears or mountain lions. I personally wouldn’t describe their issuing of bear tags like candy at Halloween. Seem to recall some of our esteemed Commissioners seeking to astronomically increase the price of bear tags. That’s some pricey Reese’s cups!

 

[grasshopper]

Follow-up article this morning.

How can Eagle County save its declining elk population?

Earlier this month, the Vail Daily reported that, while elk may seem to be doing better, there is still significant cause for concern about the future of Eagle County’s elk population. In 1995, the elk...

www.vaildaily.com

Sounds like voters and counties should just quit buying open space to me. Hunters get locked out and we put trails for everyone where it isn't helpful. I know I'll never vote for it.

The numbers in that 2nd article are way off compared to the spreadsheet cpw gave me back in 2018.

 

[Westelker]

I probably could have stated this better, CPW may be hesitant to call out high levels of predation (from lions, bears and very soon wolves) as a factor in declining elk populations. As stated in the article, CPW can only do so much. They can’t 6x6make people harvest bears or mountain lions. I personally wouldn’t describe their issuing of bear tags like candy at Halloween. Seem to recall some of our esteemed Commissioners seeking to astronomically increase the price of bear tags. That’s some pricey Reese’s cups!

I don't see that many hunters harvesting bears. I've never seen bear meat at a game processor. No candy No Halloween! I think that a lot of the CPW commissioners and other "higher ups" don't give a damn about the hunters or hunting and it starts with the Governor on down! They praise the revenue that's brought into their coffers and act like they really support the Res hunters, and especially the NRes hunters. The article read that the four legged predators kill their victims compassionately, I never seen nor heard of of a clean kill from a mountain lion on a deer, or a coyote on a jack rabbit. Just wait until the wolves get transferred into our western counties, then it will be a Halloween feast for them everyday...or should I say a Thanksgiving feast for them. Instead of turkey and ham it will be elk and venison.

 

[Westelker]

Woolfphs gotta eat.

Not in my state! Let mother nature introduce them naturally.