Forget caliber and bullet, let’s talk shot placement

[brocksw]

Just some photos with skeletal structure.

 

[TheJason]

All shots pictured will result in a dead elk. Shots 1, 2, and 4 will result in a good amount of meat loss from the shoulder. Been there, done that. My choice is shot 3.

With cup and core bullets, yes. Coppers, no. Been there done that.

 

[TheJason]

Good post @JLS.

While I agree that taking out the front shoulder is needed, on a few of your examples, I would personally wait for a broadside or quartering away opportunity.

Agree with @buffybr, been there, done that. The front shoulder is a mess and meat is lost.

I won’t criticize anyone for waiting. That’s a personal choice. I’ll take any one of those all day long, and at most I’ll lose 5 pounds of meat. Max. Probably more like 2.

 

[Slam]

Good Stuff JLS!

Now add in incline and decline shot placement.

 

[2rocky]

I'm likely to aim a touch higher than a few of you for a rifle shot. I'd likely be 6 inches in front of the above poa. Reason being an elk can step and a lung shot becomes a liver/gut shot pretty quick.

 

[TheJason]

Good Stuff JLS!

Now add in incline and decline shot placement.

That’s a hard one to depict on a screen. I will say this, I’m willing to bet most folks will tend to shoot high on a incline/decline shot

 

[richmondrat]

I know we're not talking about caliber but how much force do you think is needed for an ethical kill that is likely to go through a shoulder? 270 Win with 150gr pill has me concerned I may not get through the animal with a shoulder hit (I've only ever hunted southern whitetail).

 

[TheJason]

I know we're not talking about caliber but how much force do you think is needed for an ethical kill that is likely to go through a shoulder? 270 Win with 150gr pill has me concerned I may not get through the animal with a shoulder hit (I've only ever hunted southern whitetail).

I’ve killed elk with my .243 and an 85 grain Barnes. It’s easy to overthink shit.

 

[Mtnhunter1]

I won’t criticize anyone for waiting. That’s a personal choice. I’ll take any one of those all day long, and at most I’ll lose 5 pounds of meat. Max. Probably more like 2.

Honest question, do you think that the mono makes that much of a difference in lost meat while shattering shoulder bone?

I ask this because I am truly interested in your real life observations using a mono. I have never personally killed an animal with a mono bullet. Been packing mono handloads around for the last three years but have yet to actually fire them into a game animal. My only observation, to date, is that mono bullets sure shoot good groups!

 

[brymoore]

I know we're not talking about caliber but how much force do you think is needed for an ethical kill that is likely to go through a shoulder? 270 Win with 150gr pill has me concerned I may not get through the animal with a shoulder hit (I've only ever hunted southern whitetail).

I’ve killed elk with 270 with 130, 140 and 150gr bullets with no problems.

I’ve shot through elk shoulders with a 257 Roberts and 110gr accubonds.

 

[Beignet]

That’s a hard one to depict on a screen. I will say this, I’m willing to bet most folks will tend to shoot high on a incline/decline shot

Can confirm from recent first-hand observations.

*face-palm emoji*

 

[brockel]

I know we're not talking about caliber but how much force do you think is needed for an ethical kill that is likely to go through a shoulder? 270 Win with 150gr pill has me concerned I may not get through the animal with a shoulder hit (I've only ever hunted southern whitetail).

You will be just fine

 

[TheJason]

Honest question, do you think that the mono makes that much of a difference in lost meat while shattering shoulder bone?

I ask this because I am truly interested in your real life observations using a mono. I have never personally killed an animal with a mono bullet. Been packing mono handloads around for the last three years but have yet to actually fire them into a game animal. My only observation, to date, is that mono bullets sure shoot good groups!

Absolutely I do. I shot partitions and Speer Interlocks for years. I remember trimming a mule deer I shot with my .300 win using partitions. It was horrendous.

I switched to monos a few years after that. There have been animals where I broke the humerus and basically trimmed right up to the bullet hole.

The deer I shot with a hammer hunter last year stepped with his hind leg right when I pressed off the shot. I hit his femur on the quartering away shot instead of the last rib. I doubt I lost more than 2-3 lbs.

 

[2rocky]

That’s a hard one to depict on a screen. I will say this, I’m willing to bet most folks will tend to shoot high on a incline/decline shot

guilty!

 

[richmondrat]

Absolutely I do. I shot partitions and Speer Interlocks for years. I remember trimming a mule deer I shot with my .300 win using partitions. It was horrendous.

I switched to monos a few years after that. There have been animals where I broke the humerus and basically trimmed right up to the bullet hole.

The deer I shot with a hammer hunter last year stepped with his hind leg right when I pressed off the shot. I hit his femur on the quartering away shot instead of the last rib. I doubt I lost more than 2-3 lbs.

Thanks for the practical advice

 

[SaskHunter]

DOn'T NEED TO TRAIL EM IF YOU SHOOT DEM IN DA FRIGGEN HEAD,,,OR LEGS

 

[Farmerj]

With cup and core bullets, yes. Coppers, no. Been there done that.

I made a conscious decision to move to bonded/partition because of cup and core performance.

You’ve now got me seriously looking at coppers for the future.

 

[BackofBeyond]

I made a conscious decision to move to bonded/partition because of cup and core performance.

You’ve now got me seriously looking at coppers for the future.

They won't be any more dead with a mono, but from my 1 experience this year with a Hammer bullet, you will have blood shot meat, but not the full scale, lead everywhere, shear destruction of the backside like you would with bonded or cup and core bullets.

 

[buffybr]

With cup and core bullets, yes. Coppers, no. Been there done that.

I may have posted this story before, but here's my Been there done that experience with elk shoulder shots.

For many years my favorite elk rifle was my .30 Gibbs shooting 180 grain Nosler Partition bullets. Many times there would be a dinner plate sized bloodshot area around the bullet entrance hole.

In 2009 I built my .300 Weatherby and started shooting 168 gr barnes TSX bullets in it. Their muzzle velocity was about 250 fps faster than the 180 gr Partitions from my .30 Gibbs.

The first elk that I shot with a 168 gr TSX from my .300 Wby, I shot broadside tight behind the bull's shoulder (like shown in pic #3). The bull jumped three steps and fell dead. When I skinned him, there was a .30 caliber entrance hole, maybe a fist size amount of bloodshot, and about a 3/4" exit hole behind his off shoulder.

Then a couple of years later I had another 5x5 bull standing quartering to me similar to pics 2 and 4. Because my previous bull shot with a 168 gr TSX bullet left so little bloodshot meat, I didn't follow my "broadside" shot rule and I shot him on the point of his shoulder with a 168 gr TTSX bullet.

That bullet hit his upper front leg bone where it joins the shoulder blade. At least half of that shoulder instantly turned into bloodshot mush. He died instantly, but I considered that shot had destroyed too much meat.

 

[wyoelkfan15]

My general rule of thumb is two to the chest the face gets the rest...