Forest Service Public Opinion Survey

[Michaelr]

kind of like atv's
i see guys driving them all over restriced areas.
make a report and they don't do shit!!

I had 5 of them nearly run me over way the hell back in a closed area.
I was working my way up a steep ridge to a patch of timber that I had watched a nice bunch of elk drop into.
unfortunatly the buttheads on the atv's seen them from about 3 ridges away.
I got into it with one of the guys, almost to the point of a shooting, I got tag numbers and the licence plate numbers from their truck and trailer.
reported then to the sheriff.
nothing hapened

 

[BuzzH]

Mike said, "enforcement of regulations already on the books is what we need!"

If you believe that, then why are you trashing Marvel, you should be applauding his efforts, because thats exactly what he's been doing.

Hmmmm????

 

[Michaelr]

Bullshit!!
Right out of his own mouth he has stated that his goal is to kick them all off the range..

The enforcement needs to be done by the land managers not private individuals.

I would dare say that the majority are following the regulations.
We all know about the bad apple and the barrel.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-24-2003 15:48: Message edited by: michaelr ]</font>

 

[Michaelr]

let me put it this way, if we were to go the way of marvels logic then all hunting should be stopped because joe asshole poached a deer,
and stevie wanker tore up a hillside with his atv.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-24-2003 15:51: Message edited by: michaelr ]</font>

 

[BuzzH]

I guess Marvel is passing his own new laws and the ranchers are taking HIM to court?

NO, I dont think so, he's having success in the court room by demanding the enforcment of laws already on the books.

You sure try to twist stuff around a lot dont you Mike?

 

[Michaelr]

Go read about some of the crap he has said, then tell me I'm twisting things around.
It is his agenda, and goals that I take issue with.
If his goal was to only improve things it would be a different story.

Besides that he is an arrogant prick!!

 

[1_pointer]

If one puts aside the agenda...

Would you say that Marvels efforts will lead to better range conditions on areas under dispute?

 

[Ithaca 37]

No doubt about it they will. In fact, his lawsuits are the main reason there's been any improvement at all in many areas. If Marvel hadn't come along it would be business as usual for the ranchers and BLM.

I take it from what some are saying on this board that they'd like to see someone start forcing the BLM, FS, local and state governments to enforce ATV regulations, but they don't want Marvel forcing the BLM, FS, and state governments to enforce grazing regulations.

That's the kind of mentality we're dealing with here and it's a waste of time to expect people with that mentality to think logically. Some others get the point, though, and that's where the benefit is.

 

[ELKCHSR]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> It isnt hard to know the difference between something being over-grazed and something in good health (if you educate yourself a pinch). For Christ sake, we arent building rockets here. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, but according to you, you are the only one with the pinch of sense and the rest of us are wrong...LMAO..."It's not me lord, its every one else"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I sure dont see many strict regulations surrounding public lands grazing...do you?

If there were stricter regulations, maybe we wouldnt be having this whole debate. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Of course you don't you are one of them that help to write it!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Mike said, "enforcement of regulations already on the books is what we need!"

If you believe that, then why are you trashing Marvel, you should be applauding his efforts, because thats exactly what he's been doing.

Hmmmm???? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But he is going about it all wrong and way to much!!!

 

[Washington Hunter]

How can you have "way too much" enforcement of regulations? Shouldn't all regulations be enforced, ALL the time?

 

[BuzzH]

Come on Washington Hunter, everyone knows any kind of regulation that slows down strip mining, logging, grazing, etc. is just a pain in the ass. Besides regulations dont mean anything, and why should they be enforced?

Only Elkchsr should be able to decide when and to what extent regulations should be enforced. People like Marvel arent the enemy, and thats a fact. I dont think anyone with half a brain can tell me the ranchers and blm have done even a half-assed good job of managing public lands. They havent done anything other than rape the land for profit, at the expense of the things I fight for...wildlife being at the top of the list.

It really boggles my mind some people are so ignorant. Thank God they're in the minority, and thank God they mostly just blow hot air. The thing I cant believe is the stance many take, and still claim to be hunters???? They obviously dont care as much about wildlife as they claim to.

 

[Michaelr]

no some of us just want a fair balance, seems like you have people way to the right and way to the left, the people in the middle with a tad of intelligence catch it from both sides.

 

[Ithaca 37]

It's been so far out of balance for so long that most ranchers don't even know where the middle of the road is. They think if they don't get everything 95% their way the system is unbalanced. Well, times are changing, pardner, and values other than beef production by welfare ranchers are becoming more important.

People wanta be able to use the land for recreation, but after it's been overgrazed and ruined by cattle there's not much else it can be used for. Except maybe tearing it up more with ATVs. Who wants to camp, fish, picnic, hike, hunt, or anything else when the ground is so covered with cow shit it's like walking thru a minefield!

 

[ELKCHSR]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Come on Washington Hunter, everyone knows any kind of regulation that slows down strip mining, logging, grazing, etc. is just a pain in the ass. Besides regulations dont mean anything, and why should they be enforced? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
C'mon now Buzz, only your little neck of the woods has been over logged, and strip mined, just drive thru there and one can see that, there’s not one post on all the threads that condones your way of looking at the world

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Only Elkchsr should be able to decide when and to what extent regulations should be enforced. People like Marvel arent the enemy, and thats a fact. I dont think anyone with half a brain can tell me the ranchers and blm have done even a half-assed good job of managing public lands. They havent done anything other than rape the land for profit, at the expense of the things I fight for...wildlife being at the top of the list. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
There you go again, just ranting and raving, I haven't seen you refute a thing I have said, only rantings of some one going over the edge, the stress of the current politics is getting to be to much for you to handle

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> It really boggles my mind some people are so ignorant. Thank God they're in the minority, and thank God they mostly just blow hot air. The thing I cant believe is the stance many take, and still claim to be hunters???? They obviously dont care as much about wildlife as they claim to. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Rush hit this one right on the head, liberals and democrats just don't get the fact that they don't lead much of any thing any more and just don't get it...

The only way they can try and get their point across is to act like a lunatic and rant on...Well I say, Rant on Buzz-rant on!!!

null

 

[BuzzH]

Elkchsr, do you ever look at a single fact?

Deny that the ranchers and BLM havent trashed 70 percent of BLM lands. End of story.

 

[ELKCHSR]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Elkchsr, do you ever look at a single fact? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes I look at them with my own eyes, not just what some one wants to tell me...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Deny that the ranchers and BLM havent trashed 70 percent of BLM lands. End of story. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not many that I have personally witnessed...
End of story, what is with that!!! It never ends till you are dead!!!

 

[Muledeer4me]

["People wanta be able to use the land for recreation, but after it's been overgrazed and ruined by cattle there's not much else it can be used for. Except maybe tearing it up more with ATVs. Who wants to camp, fish, picnic, hike, hunt, or anything else when the ground is so covered with cow shit it's like walking thru a minefield!""]
http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/nvum/reports/year1/R4_Caribou_final.htm #_Toc524932142

As for how many people want to use our public lands ,
I found this site ,it gives a look at how many use public lands & how they view it.
The ratings I saw for condition of the natural environment and surrounding area were rated as good or above.
I didnt get the impression that the only thing it was good for was for riding an ATV LOL

By the sale of RVs at the last RV show in Boise ,and all the tents and camping gear that is sold in just this area alone ,I think the answer to how many people want to use the land would be (A HELL OF A LOT)

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-25-2003 20:53: Message edited by: Muledeer4me ]</font>

 

[1_pointer]

How many plants can you identify on BLM? Does the general public no the difference between a noxious weed and a grass? Dyer's woad looks beautiful in bloom, but hardly anything but sheep will eat it. Knapweed looks green and lush after many grasses of started to dry out, but MT loses millions of dollars a year in revenue from lands taken over by spotted knapweed. Cheatgrass can make a place look beautiful for the few weeks it's green, but only works to remove native plants and is worthless as forage. There is much more than meets the eye when judging the condition of the land.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Most people don't have any idea how to judge the condition of the land, and most have never seen any BLM that isn't overgrazed, so it all looks normal to them.

By the BLM's own admission at least 60% of all BLM is in poor condition. How can anybody argue with that?! Only if they don't know what they're looking at!

 

[ELKCHSR]

I have as stated before, ran across countless square miles of ground, along with looking at them from roads and what not. Yes I would agree that the general public doesn't know what it is looking at according to health, and the type of plants the area contains. I do see quite a few noxious weeds, and can identify a number of them. I have noticed that most of them don't grow in the massive numbers (like knapweed to name just one) when there seems to be a balance in the area, i.e. taller grass, about the right amount of ungulates, and regularly occurring fires. Of course I have only been looking at this stuff for a couple few years with a new eye, but the noxious weeds aren’t as prevalent in areas where there is a good balance of every thing. Also just to add, when you have areas, such as the Big Hole valley, where there is an ongoing war against any noxious weed that is found to rip it out or poison it, there is a big lacking of them around. I know it would be pretty much impossible to try and knock out all of them, because of the way these things spread and the length of time the seeds can lay dormant in the soil. But as I walk along, I take a little time as I go and pull out some of these weeds as I go, how many of you guy's do that as you go. Including those that are into doing every thing possible to save the environment. I even teach the kids that I take out, how to find these plants and destroy them. I know for a fact, I'm not doing much to curb the flow of these things, but in areas that have had them all but eliminated, it makes a big difference, and no one is paying me to do this!!!