Force fetch

[802flyfish]

In the process of force fetching my dog. We’re in the first week and working on “hold”. I’ve implemented a clicker for the duration of FF. We’re working on a raised flat surface but I don’t have the ability to run a cable to keep her in place. She’s really struggling once I get the buck in her mouth. It’s a wrestling match must of the time. The buck is made out of pine and is fairly chewed up already due to how much she’s been fighting back.. Tonight was our sixth session and I’ve only been able to get the buck placed in her mouth for roughly 30 seconds without her struggling..

I’ve been cautious with putting the buck in her mouth, making sure her gums are cleared. Giving her lots of praise as well. We’ve been keeping these sessions rather short (15-20). I feel like we should have accomplished the “hold” within 2-3 sessions so I’m starting to get discouraged.


Should I use a buck that’s made out of harder wood? Would that help with her mouthing it less perhaps?

Should I add another short session in the morning?



Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[F250]

James Spencer wrote Training Retrievers for Marsh and Meadows. Great book and a great step by step guide for the new retriever trainer. I have followed his teachings with very good results.

 

[AlaskaHunter]

I force fetch my labs because I run hunt tests and field trials.
That way a wet, cold, skanky duck with the scent of other dogs is not a problem.

During my sheep hunting days I did not force fetch a lab and she ran blinds
with the same style as my Master Hunter/Q dog does. All I did was hunt that
lab and every retrieve was a fresh shot flyer, which is very different than a
wet, cold, skanky duck that pros have to deal with in competitions.
Most field champions in the UK have never been force-fetched because in
their competitions every retrieve is a freshly shot bird.
In the US there are hundreds of excellent hunting retrievers that only hunt
and do not compete that have not been force-fetched.

Here are some tips on force-fetch:
1) Patience and persistence are key. Never get mad, that could be counter productive.
2) Schedule a routine. I like twice a day 2-minute sessions just before feeding the dog. 15-20 mins is too long for a productive session...better to do 3 2-minute sessions per day if possible.
3) Start with a gloved hand teaching hold. That way it is impossible for the dog to spit out.
4) After success with a gloved hand, transition to a nice soft paint roller.
5) A 5-second hold is a win if your previous session was a 2-second hold. Then a 10-second hold is a win if your previous session was a 5-second hold. If pup trys to spit out during a hold, you as a trainer lost and your advancing too quickly. Patience and persistence are key.
6) No need for a training table. Eventually you will apply force fetch in a variety of settings.

 

[Wild Bill]

My suggestion would be find a reputable trainer in your area that uses a method you approve of and get some pointers or have them do it. I would also say if you don't have to ability to keep her in place it sounds like you're setting her up for failure.

 

[Nick87]

My suggestion would be find a reputable trainer in your area that uses a method you approve of and get some pointers or have them do it. I would also say if you don't have to ability to keep her in place it sounds like you're setting her up for failure.

Yah find a way to run a cable, I'm sure there's a way somehow. Try a paint roller also.

 

[TheJason]

Start with a gloved hand then move to a paint roller. If you can’t achieve success move back a step you may need to go back to basic obedience for a couple of weeks.

I don’t use a table. I do it on the floor.

Evan Graham’s Smart Fetch book is a great resource. Pick a method and stick with it.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

It was one of the worst things I have ever had to do... My lab was incredibly strong willed, and had a high tolerance for discomfort. I had to consult a professional several times, and go to him for coaching. I ended up having to use an e-collar; which was not what I wanted to do, but was the only thing that worked. It took a good 4-6 weeks, but once he got it, he did amazing...

 

[Arcola]

As stated above, you need a way to keep her in place without wrestling her. Also consider starting with a lightweight, soft dummy. Something that isn't as uncomfortable. Then you can progress as she acclimates to it. I've started with canvas bumpers and worked up to pvc tubes filled with sand. This is also the stage where you're going to have to decide how much discomfort you're wiling to place on her. Ear pinch works. Doesn't have to be super aggressive with most dogs.

 

[Arcola]

Also, once you have things going the way you want them, don't slack off. Turn this into a game for the dog. Not a day goes by that I don't make my 9yo dog fetch something random and bring it to me. He even helps the kids pick up toys. He still loves to perform that duty.

 

[Frenchy]

I too start with the Gloved hand to teach hold. Sets the expectations, allows you to introduce the commands, give praise etc all while controlling the situation and ensuring success every time.

They tend to fight the gloved hand, but learn to settle down pretty quick.

 

[BrentD]

 

[OntarioHunter]

Interesting. A lifetime of Labs and I've never had to resort to force fetch. Might have made a difference with my Fr Britt but the breeder/trainer told me it would be a waste of time if I hunted her with the Labs. Females in particular prefer to defer to the retreivers. She will run down crippled roosters and bring them in when hunting alone (which is rare). That's good enough. And for whatever reason she is absolutely nuts about retreiving ducks from water. Go figure! Anyway "Puppy" is so sensitive I just can't see force fetch working for her at all. A real crybaby.

I have never been interested in competition with my dogs. I've had a couple who probably would have done well, but I went to a couple of field trials when I was young and quickly determined those folks were not my kind of people.

Keep us posted. I'll be interested to see how this works out. You might also want to give a shake to Gun Dog forum. I used to belong but found it was mostly pointing dog handlers of the competition variety.

 

[TheJason]

5) A 5-second hold is a win if your previous session was a 2-second hold. Then a 10-second hold is a win if your previous session was a 5-second hold. If pup trys to spit out during a hold, you as a trainer lost and your advancing too quickly. Patience and persistence are key.

This is gold right here. Just like increasing the time of your down stay, don’t take bites that are too big.

Patience. If your dog is biddable, this will fall into place.

 

[TheJason]

Also, forgot to add, don’t be afraid to take a break. It’s easy to think “I’ve started this, I can’t back off”. That’s BS. If the wheels are coming off the wagon and you feel your dog shutting down, get away from FF and do basic obedience, working for absolute military style precision and perfection.

 

[802flyfish]

Well she must of saw me typing up this thread last night and felt sorry for me because today everything just clicked.

She has a very strong desire to retrieve. Just want to polish it up and create a stronger bond between each other.