seeth07
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There are 495 NFL head coaches that get to say "yes I was a head coach but I wasn't good enough to win a super bowl"
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SwaggyD
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So does coaching matter again? What am I missing.
seeth07
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To actually win a Super Bowl, yes the head coach matters. Right along with a GM above him that allows that coach to build the team to match how he is going to run the team.
Putting myself out here a bit… but I think Lions fans may very well find out the hard way this postseason that coaching does indeed matter.
SwaggyD
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What he said.
Also, never forget, Aaron's and Brett's last pass as a packer were both interceptions.
BrentD
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Did you see the last 2 minutes of the Lions-Bears game? Head coach matters a bunch. They might be the most underpaid "player" on the whole team.
406dn
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Just asking, how great a coach does it take to have a 1 and 6 record at home?
I see your point though he's been there 2022 and 2023, examples where they did just fine at home.
Sometimes a hurricane hits and it's taken an ugly toll this year for home games.
seeth07
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Perhaps the guy above him doesn't allow him to have the team run the way he would like? There also is Dak
SwaggyD
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Without a top/decent QB, he is just another coach with nothing to show. Look at the years Rodgers got hurt and Dak got hurt. Change my mind.
seeth07
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except a super bowl win.
VikingsGuy
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Lots and lots of rings owned by average players- don’t have to give them back, but doesn’t make them great. (Or great ceases to mean anything)
I do kind of see your point.
Holmgren is thought of way differently than McCarthy (at least around here), but really they both underachieved and only won one SB despite several MVP QB years for each.
McCarthy looking/sounding like (and being) a moron has undoubtably caused some harm to his image that he may or may not deserve.
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SwaggyD
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Not without a top QB. If he didn't have Rodgers, he would have nothing to show. Lucky for him he had him.
BrentD
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Sure. But those that have, trump those that do not. You have often said that a great QB has a ring. But of course, some greats do not and some not so greats do. Like everything else, it is just a piece of a bigger puzzle. I can tell you, I have a belt buckle that says "National Champion," and I'm pretty damn proud of it, even if I may not be the best person to pick up a rifle. So, "great enough" counts in my book.
406dn
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I guess I'm left to answer my own question, This years Cowboys team is quite similar to most Jets teams. Maybe they should do a jersey swap.
seeth07
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There is a huge difference between a player and the head coach here though in this discussion. A team can be built with many great players and still not even reach the playoffs year after year. This is a TEAM game. The driving force to develop and lead that team is the GM and the head coach as every other piece of the TEAM is built by them for a purpose of winning a Super Bowl.
SwaggyD
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So for everyone that won't look it up, here it is:
2006 - Rodgers broken foot in week 11. Packers 8-8. (edit - This doesn't matter because he was filling in garbage time for Brett, but why did they only finish 8-8? Mike's a great coach)
2013 - Rodgers broken collarbone in week 9. Packers 8-7-1.
2017 - Rodgers broken collarbone in week 6, returned in week 15, then put on IR. Packers 7-9.
2018 - Rodgers hurts knee week 1. He later revealed the injury to be a plateau fracture and a sprained MCL in his left knee. He would start all 16 games in 2018, throwing 25 touchdowns and just two interceptions, despite dealing with the injury. Packers 4-7-1 before Mike is fired.
From 2006 - 2008.
Rodgers' record as a starter - 98-55-1.
Mike's record as a coach - 125-77-2.
So, yeah, I guess he was a great coach even though he was barely above .500 without one of the best to ever do it (while in his prime years) being his signal caller.
2006 - Rodgers broken foot in week 11. Packers 8-8. (edit - This doesn't matter because he was filling in garbage time for Brett, but why did they only finish 8-8? Mike's a great coach)
2013 - Rodgers broken collarbone in week 9. Packers 8-7-1.
2017 - Rodgers broken collarbone in week 6, returned in week 15, then put on IR. Packers 7-9.
2018 - Rodgers hurts knee week 1. He later revealed the injury to be a plateau fracture and a sprained MCL in his left knee. He would start all 16 games in 2018, throwing 25 touchdowns and just two interceptions, despite dealing with the injury. Packers 4-7-1 before Mike is fired.
From 2006 - 2008.
Rodgers' record as a starter - 98-55-1.
Mike's record as a coach - 125-77-2.
So, yeah, I guess he was a great coach even though he was barely above .500 without one of the best to ever do it (while in his prime years) being his signal caller.
seeth07
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So you are telling me that McCarthy in no way had an impact on Aaron Rodgers getting to where he got to once Favre left?
Rodgers drafted in 05. McCarthy becomes head coach in 06. Rodgers became the starter in 08 with the departure of Favre. Before being a head coach, McCarthy was a QB couch from 95-2000. Yup, no correlation at all and Rodgers did it all on his own.
BrentD
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Not arguing with that. I was responding specifically to @VikingsGuy . That said, it is a team game and one that where you can be pretty mediocre at any one position - except head coach (in my opinion). Even a mediocre owner can win a superbowl, though I'm not sure I would know a mediocre manager when I see one (is Jerry mediocre?, He is in the Hall I think)
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