SwaggyD
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Football General Talk
- Thread starter Sytes
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BrentD
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That was some fairly elite quarterbacking from two allegedly sub elite QBs last night. I enjoyed it. Great quarterbacking seems to be popping up in lots of unexpected places this season.
VikingsGuy
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tldr: I don’t think that word means what you think it means
1. Everyone can’t be elite if the word is to have any meaning. Just as, by definition, they can’t all be above average.
2. Typically the “elite” distinguish themselves with consistent greatness over time and in the highest pressure situations - such as playoffs.
3. Elite QB play does not miss wide open easy throws for winning TDs (like Baker did on a screen play late in the game).
4. No team in the league would pick either of these two over Mahomes, Allen, Stroud or Jackson. If you can’t make the top 12.5% you can’t be elite.
BrentD
Well-known member
ah come on! You've been to Lake Wobegon. It's right next door to you.tldr: I don’t think that word means what you think it means
1. Everyone can’t be elite if the word is to have any meaning. Just as, by definition, they can’t all be above average.
2. Typically the “elite” distinguish themselves with consistent greatness over time and in the highest pressure situations - such as playoffs.
3. Elite QB play does not miss wide open easy throws for winning TDs (like Baker did on a screen play late in the game).
4. No team in the league would pick either of these two over Mahomes, Allen, Stroud or Jackson. If you can’t make the top 12.5% you can’t be elite.
Yes, elites do miss open receivers.
I did not say that anyone would swap their "bonafide" elites for either of them. Nor did I call them elite, but rather that was the sort of play one expects from elites. Meanwhile, a fair number of the "bonafide" elites really looked pretty mediocre last weekend, c.f., Mahomes, Stroud, Rodgers in particular, last weekend, and maybe some others, but I wasn't paying attention to all of them.
I meant Stroud 2 weeks ago, against the vikes.
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seeth07
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Kirk has been significantly undervalued almost his whole career. The dude is just a stud. There is a reason why for the last 5 years he is my target qb in fantasy and due to the undervalue by most, he goes way down and I always get him. End of season he is always a top 5 qb Stat wise. Dude just knows how to sling it, as evident by last night. Now that he isn't a viking, I think i need to get his jersey
VikingsGuy
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First of all he is not top 5 stats guy, but sometimes top 10. Plus stats don't matter when it's 4th and 8 in the closing seconds of a playoff game at home against an inferior opponent and you check down to a covered outlet for 5. Kirk is a good QB, just not a winning QB when it matters.
BrentD
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except last night.
VikingsGuy
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Have the playoffs started already?except last night.
seeth07
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Ok, more like top 11 stats guy, but sometimes top 5 or even top 1 (i.e. likely this week).
Toss him on an actual good team like the Niners or Cowboys the last few years and they maybe have a Super Bowl? Washington to Vikings and now the Falcons? Dude just doesn't have a chance to be good.
2023 before injury:
2022:
2021: He missed one game and with how close it was in the 5-11 range he would have likely moved up a lot with one more game.
2020:
BrentD
Well-known member
Yeah, thatvwas an important in conference game between two contenders. But I do think you underrate him a lot. And if you really wanna talk about performing under pressure, he did it last night and completed passes on fourth down multiple times. Heck, if he did that every time every team in the country would trade their quarterback for him instantly.
That was elite play last night, and will wager That no quarterback, elite or otherwise, will do better this week.
But the whole point of my original post was that there has been a lot of good quarterback play in places that were not expecting it this year. I think that's a fair statement.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
I don’t buy it. He is a .500 QB because his limitations (a statue in the pocket and his very conservative choices in high leverage situations) combined with top 5 guaranteed short term contract demands which prevent building other essential components on the team turn his teams into .500 teams. He inherited at NFC title game team and drove it to .500.
He is good enough to take a .300 team and get them up to .500, and expensive and limited enough to take a .700 team and make them .500.
He has made more $$ per win than any QB in history - good for him, not good for the teams.
VikingsGuy
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Cousins is the Vikings of quarterbacks. Good enough to get folks excited, never good enough to bring home a ring.
BrentD
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Man, you are just tough on the guy. Last night, he not only threw for 500 yds, his accuracy and timing were impeceble unlike several of the more celebrated QBs.
VikingsGuy
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I will recant when he gets a ring.
BrentD
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Oh, come on. It is a team game. Show me Marino's ring, or was he a chump?
Meanwhile what about Allen made him elite last week?
Cousin's play, last night, was about as good as it gets.
seeth07
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I suppose you have us there as no Viking QB has been able to figure it out. But at least the Vikings have had good QB's. Ask Bear fans how they feel about their QB's
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
We have had one elite QB (Fran) that played at that level for more than a season or so (1 yr each of Favre, Cunningham and Daunte isn't enough). Certainly the bar has to be higher than the Bears and Lions QBs of the Super Bowl era.I suppose you have us there as no Viking QB has been able to figure it out. But at least the Vikings have had good QB's. Ask Bear fans how they feel about their QB's
JEL
Well-known member
Kirk is certainly elite when it comes to making money.
seeth07
Well-known member
Naw, I sort of enjoy the thread so lets hope it stays that way!
To quote a great Packer fan, the Vikings are "the purple incarnation of satin" and as such, bad qb's is what they deserve
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