Flyers Flyers Flyers

[ShaneFl'06]

I am getting some nasty flyers working up loads for my 30.06. every load from start at 47.5gr of IMR4064 to 49.5gr is shooting two nice shots within a 1'' square and then one flyer that is anywhere between 1.5-2'' away. At 51gr I get a 1 3/4 group in a line with no flyer. Then back to a flyer at 51.5. At 52gr the group includeing the flyer is at 2inches with the two close shots touching. The bullet is 150gr HDY SP,Fed 210 Primers. COl is 3.225,at a COl of 3.235 the bearing surface is on the lands. the only thing done to the rifle is a floated barrel. I haven't ruled out the rifle and I haven't ruled out me. when testing loads I use a good shoulder pad so i can shoot comfy all day without starting to pull. The flyers are not to one direction each time,there low and to the right or left or high to the right or left. This is my first experience with flyers. What can be done to correct the problem? What could be the problem??

 

[danr55]

Shane, I would start by checking the barrel to make sure it was clean and the crown was OK. Next I would check to be sure that the recticle in the scope was not moving. If all of that tested OK, then I would look at the bedding of the barrel. Is it floated or pressure pointed ( is the stock wook or composite?)? How is the bedding on the action? All of this is listed in pretty much the order that I would check. This is all provided that the loads were all built with measured powder charges, the same head stamp brass, the same kind of primers, and the same bullets. May sound like crazy considerations, but you would be surprised. Anway, if all of that checks good, then I would consider the screw behind the trigger. Sometimes two shots is all a shooter can concentrate on. We all have good days and bad days...... Never hurts to consider.

 

[ShaneFl'06]

danr55 the stock is wood (Ruger M77 pre MarkII) Two seasons ago the stock got super wet and swelled at one part of the forearm and caused me to get stringers to the right. I floated the barrel myself and the the groupd tightened right up with factory ammo.There is no pressure point but I have considered adding pressure at the forearm end and experiment. The crown looks good. The action has never been bedded and to be honest I don't know what to look for if the bedding was bad. All components are from one lot each with the winchester brass being once fired factory that I shot in the same rifle. AHHH the scope!! It is not a great but has been good on the rifle for 10 years,it's Bushnell sportview 3x9x40. I have used a laser bore sighter to check the recticle for movement and there was none that I could tell. My Simmons 3x9x32 from a Walmart Package Winchester Rifle is a different story,what Junk!!!!!

Narrowed down I would think it could be three things. Me (shooter,loader) The rifle(stock) or the scope( by far not the best)

I have another Stock for the Ruger that came from a M77 300winmag. It is new and untouched. the forearm is already floated and my action slides right in. I guess the 300winmag barrel is thicker so thats why my 30.06 barrel seems to be floated in that stock. Any tips on adding a pressure point in the forearm??

OHH ya the barrel was cleaned very well.


[ 24 April 2001: Message edited by: ShaneFl'06 ]

 

[Calif. Hunter]

I've been having the same problem with my .270. After shooting it on Sunday, I took it out of the stock. (It was putting two shots touching and one out about 3/4 inch to 2 inches.) The barrel was pressure bedded at the forend tip, but obviously "more" pressure on one side than the other, since there was a mark on the right side of the barrel from the synthetic stock (blueing wearing off.) I sanded out the right side of the forend tip/channel to try to even out the pressure. We'll see if it helped....

 

[danr55]

Shane, the best advice I can give you for pressure pointing a wood stock, is don't. Wood, regardless of how well it is sealed, will move with changes in humidity. Pressure pointing a wood stock may accentuate that movement. The best bet for bedding if you don't feel like trying it yourself is to take it to a good smith and pay him to do it. The things to look for in the stock would be rub marks that indicate that action is shifting when the rifle is fired. You should look at all of the points where the action and the stock touch. Behind the recoil lug, the side walls of the inletted part of the action, under the rear tang, etc. If you see any wear in the wood, chances are the stock has been moving. If you see that the bottom of the recoil lug is contacting the wood, you know you have a problem.

Another thing that I failed to mention before is the trigger. A stiff Ruger factory trigger can be a fatigue factor. After three shots, the stiff trigger causes most shooter to jerk at it rather than to press it. You may consider have the trigger worked or replaced.

You said the scope had performed well for 10 years. that may or maynot be a problem. See if you can find someone with an optical bore sighter. Set the bore sight then bounce the rifle on your hand and see if the reticle moves. Doesn't sound like the problem, but you never know.

 

[ShaneFl'06]

danr55 yes the trigger is horrable,I would guess a 6-8 pound pull is what it is set at. I have been told the Ruger trigger is almost imposable to adjust so I have not tryed it. I will remove the action this evening and let you know what I see,maybe take some digital pics and see if you can evaluate it from the pics.

thanks for the advice and help danr55!!

 

[danr55]

Shane, you are right about adjusting the Ruger factory triggers. They have no adjustment. The only way to work them is to hand blend the sear and the disconnector. That can be done by any good gunsmith. There are some other opitions, but they are expensive. If you have a M77 MKII, you can buy a replacement trigger for those.

I'll be waiting to see the pics.

 

[Nodak Hunter]

Shane,

The trigger on the original Ruger Model 77s is adjustable. The Mark IIs are not. You mentioned that your rifle is a pre-Mark II. If it has the tang safety, you can adjust the trigger. If it has the three position safety, you can't. (The first run (transitional) of Mark IIs had the pin type ejector, and three position safety. These DO NOT have adjustable triggers. Later, Ruger adopted the true controlled feed with blade type ejector. These are the modern Mark IIs.)

If you do indeed have the original version of the Model 77, I will be glad to explain how to adjust the trigger. It's fairly simple,a nd you can usually get it down to about a 3.5-4.5 lb pull. That will help a lot.

 

[ShaneFl'06]

NoDak Hunter yes I have the original model M77 with the tang sight(two position,on off).In the trigger itself there is allen head screw if thats any help. To answere your question,sure I would an explanation on how to adjust the trigger pull.

 

[danr55]

See there. Just goes to prove that no matter how much you think you know, you can be very wrong. I would have sworn that the new Rugers were adjustable and the old ones were not. Not being a Ruger collector I wasn't really sure. Nodak, thanks for teaching me a lesson. Maybe I should check a little closer when I am not sure. It's appreciated.

 

[ShaneFl'06]

Dan here are the links to the pictures. There title's pretty much tell you what your looking at. The new stock is from the 300winmag,just there for comparison.

M77 action bed

M77 action bed

M77 Action bed

New M77 Stock action bed


M77 Action base

I hope there good enough. My first try at a digital camera.

[ 24 April 2001: Message edited by: ShaneFl'06 ]

 

[Nodak Hunter]

Shane,

Ok, here's what you need to do. First of all, make sure the rifle is unloaded.

You say your trigger is too heavy. That allen screw in the trigger compresses or relaxes the spring, thereby adjusting weight of pull. Put the rifle in a gun cradle or padded vise upside down, and turn the allen screw out (counterclockwise) to lighten trigger pull. This can be done with the action in or out of the stock. I like to do it with the action in the stock so that I can shoulder the rifle and check pull with each adjustment. The typical range of adjustment is from about 5.5-3.5 lbs. I like a hunting rifle to be set around 4 lbs. The varmint version is adjustable from about 4-2 lbs. I keep my varmint rigs as light as I can, and I do adjust the sear engagement SLIGHTLY on those.

If you want to adjust over travel, you'll need to remove the action from the stock. Same goes for sear engagement, which I STRONGLY advise against unless you really know what you are doing.

When you get your trigger where you want it, cycle the action, place a folded towel on the floor, and bang the butt of the rifle on the floor hard. Do this several times. If the firing pin disengages, you need to increase sear engagement. I'll tell you how to do this only if you have a problem with it now.

Next, cycle the action, and engage the safety. Pull the trigger, let it go, and disengage the safety. The firing pin should stay put. If it doesn't your pull is too light, and/or not enough sear engagement.

I hope this helps. If you call Ruger, they will send you an owner's manual for free. It has a nice picture of the trigger with instructions for adjustment.

The most important thing to remember is that the firing pin must NEVER move unless you are pulling the trigger with the safety off.

[ 24 April 2001: Message edited by: Nodak Hunter ]

 

[ShaneFl'06]

Nodak Hunter I will work on the tomorrow thanks. Right now there is no over travel at all. I havethe Ruger manual that came with the rifle when I bought it new in 1991,I will look and see if the trigger adjustment instructions are in there. Thanks.....Shane

 

[danr55]

Sorry Shane, I tried to look at the picutes but it told me I was not the owner of the album. ?? Don't know how else to look unless you want to email them to me

[email protected]

 

[ShaneFl'06]

Dan an email is on the way..... thanks

Nodak Hunter I adjusted that screw in the trigger and got no difference in pull that I can feel. I actualy pull the screw all the way out and there was no difference. Am I missing something?

[ 24 April 2001: Message edited by: ShaneFl'06 ]

 

[Nodak Hunter]

Shane,

Hmmm...If you didn't notice any difference, then you probably have to adjust sear engagement. Before you do that, however, you should take some #000 steel wool and polish every engagement surface on the trigger and sear assembly. Put the rifle together and try it again. If it's still clunky, the sear engagement screw is the one that is immediately above the second joint in the trigger, and faces rearward. with the weight of pull screw backed all the way out, SLIGHTLY turn the sear engagement screw clockwise. It's a good idea to note the original position of this screw before you begin. You will find that a little adjustment seems to do nothing until you get on the very edge, then a tiny bit does a lot.

Double check the sear engagement with the rifle butt-banging and the trigger pull with safety on method.

Once again, try polishing the mating surfaces with steel wool first. Sometimes it's just a matter of smoothing things up a bit.