FL Die and shoulder measuring

[SanJuanDon]

If you can reload over and over just by neck sizing and never have an issue closing your bolt then you’re doing something differently than I. With a 308Win, I can close the bolt with effort(I broke the handle off during a match once. Match over for me). With anything larger than a 308 Win it gets to the point that I can’t even do it.

That’s not to say that you aren’t telling the truth, but you either A) aren’t loading very hot, or B) aren’t doing it in a Remington 700(the only thing I’ve ever tried only neck sizing with). It’s entirely possible that your experience is different from mine, but it’s also an undeniable fact that my experience is applicable to a lot of shooters who reload.

I have cases with over 30 reloads on them. I did have to run them through a body die a couple times though.

All four of my rifles (300WSM, 270WSM, .30-06, and .243) have Remington 700 actions. You are correct, my experience is directly related to powder charge. When I worked up the loads years ago for each of these rifles I started with .5 off max SAAMI in batches of 3. If they were hard to chamber I'd back the load off .1 and so forth. The .30-06 and .243 were super easy and increased by .1 a couple of times to near SAAMI max powder charge. None of my rounds are over max. However, the WSM's took a little more work. Especially the 270WSM where I had a couple similar to your experience. Luckily I was able to get the rounds out. But, now that I have them dialed the bolts close firmly and cycle without issue. I prefer a snug fitting round, some don't so they shoulder bump.

I've also recently added annealing into my reloading process for what it's worth.

 

[ImBillT]

All four of my rifles (300WSM, 270WSM, .30-06, and .243) have Remington 700 actions. You are correct, my experience is directly related to powder charge. When I worked up the loads years ago for each of these rifles I started with .5 off max SAAMI in batches of 3. If they were hard to chamber I'd back the load off .1 and so forth. The .30-06 and .243 were super easy and increased by .1 a couple of times to near SAAMI max powder charge. None of my rounds are over max. However, the WSM's took a little more work. Especially the 270WSM where I had a couple similar to your experience. Luckily I was able to get the rounds out. But, now that I have them dialed the bolts close firmly and cycle without issue. I prefer a snug fitting round, some don't so they shoulder bump.

I've also recently added annealing into my reloading process for what it's worth.

SAAMI max powder charge?

 

[44hunter45]

Ha, the one person on the forum that has never mis-typed anything but feels the need to point it out to feel special. Give us all a break and chill.

They only have 9 posts. Give them some time. They will mistype something pretty soon.

 

[SanJuanDon]

Whenever I need min & max powder charge for a given round I call Hodgdon. I've always assumed it was SAAMI specs they were providing me. Maybe I am using the incorrect terminology. For example, for 300WSM using H4350 with a Barnes 180gn TSX projectile Hodgdon gave me 59.0min and 63.7max powder charge. So, I started my workup at 63.2 and went from there. The final result of that round was 62.5 grains of H4350 with a 180 grain Barnes TSX.

 

[44hunter45]

SAAMI max powder charge?

It's in the SAAMI Reloading book next to the SAAMI bullet weight.

 

[Caseknife]

Some of you guys are brutal for a Sunday morning

 

[ImBillT]

Whenever I need min & max powder charge for a given round I call Hodgdon. I've always assumed it was SAAMI specs they were providing me. Maybe I am using the incorrect terminology. For example, for 300WSM using H4350 with a Barnes 180gn TSX projectile Hodgdon gave me 59.0min and 63.7max powder charge. So, I started my workup at 63.2 and went from there. The final result of that round was 62.5 grains of H4350 with a 180 grain Barnes TSX.

The starting load is not a minimum, although there’s no good reason to go below it. You’d be much better off starting near the starting load and going up than starting .5gr under max. Usually you can get away with starting at or near max, but not always.

SAAMI lists maximum average pressures, and maximum probable lot mean pressures. There is no SAAMI powder charge. SAAMI has no enforcement authority, but Hodgdon likely follows their recommended procedures or something close it. Just because something produced a certain result in one of Hodgdon’s barrels doesn’t mean it will produce that result in yours. Good evidence of that is that if you look at ten reloading manuals, you’ll find ten different maximum powder charges, at ten different velocities, and sometimes the highest powder charge won’t even be close to the highest velocity. That’s another reason to start more then .5gr below max.

Be safe out there.

You use Winchester brass?

 

[44hunter45]

Here's the deal.

A lot of us were hand loading ammo before comparators and chamber gages were in common use outside the bench rest crowd.

I started making my own ammo when I was a poor young married with two kids. I had a RS2 RCBS kit. A press, powder dispenser, and a powder scale. I set me back less than $100 and it was a lot of money to me then. Dies came separately, of course. I didn't even have a mic.

That RS2 press is now my priming rig.

I made a "Thumbler's Tumbler" style polisher out of a coffee can and used old coffee grounds as medium. (Your brass comes out dull looking, but clean and free of grit and lube. )
Not having a trimmer, I gave the case mouths a couple strokes with a fine file when they came out of the sizing die.

I did everything by testing resized brass in my chamber until the bolt dropped easily. Then I set the lock ring.

I would then make a dummy round to figure out where my bullet was with respect to the lands. I used a sharpie pen or Blue Dykem to know when I stopped touching the lands. Then I turned the seating stem in 1/8 turn and checked again. When there was absolutely no contact marks I was done and I set the lock ring on the stem. Very early I replaced all the knurled lock rings on my RCBS seating stems with hex nuts so I could torque them down. They come with the hex nuts out of the box now.

My point is that a lot of the tools we have today are cool and all, but you can safely reload ammo without them. It will not be bench rest accurate, but I put a lot of meat on our table with that ammo before I got the tools to make a better product.

I use L.E. Wilson gages now and love them. I find my COAL today with the "Locktite Method". I do not use any fancy red tools for anything.

I also walked to work uphill in the snow both ways. I can afford any tool I want now, but those cheapskate handloading methods still work.

 

[ImBillT]

Some of you guys are brutal for a Sunday morning

No brutality intended. There were no units of measurement and a reference to something that didn’t make a lot of sense. “.5 off SAAMI max” left me uncertain of what he meant even if I thought I could follow.

He also seemed to be suggesting that there was no need to do something that was being recommended, which in my experience there is definitely a need for, so it’s worth pinning down exactly what he’s saying when it’s unclear.

 

[44hunter45]

Some of you guys are brutal for a Sunday morning

Why limit myself to Sundays?

 

[ImBillT]

.

I did everything by testing resized brass in my chamber until the bolt dropped easily. Then I set the lock ring.

Best thing you can do.

 

[Potsie]

I also walked to work uphill in the snow both ways.

Ya senile old coot, you work from home! So shouldn’t this be “walk to work, upstairs, in the snow both ways!”

 

[markwilks]

Here's the deal.

A lot of us were hand loading ammo before comparators and chamber gages were in common use outside the bench rest crowd.

I started making my own ammo when I was a poor young married with two kids. I had a RS2 RCBS kit. A press, powder dispenser, and a powder scale. I set me back less than $100 and it was a lot of money to me then. Dies came separately, of course. I didn't even have a mic.

That RS2 press is now my priming rig.

I made a "Thumbler's Tumbler" style polisher out of a coffee can and used old coffee grounds as medium. (Your brass comes out dull looking, but clean and free of grit and lube. )
Not having a trimmer, I gave the case mouths a couple strokes with a fine file when they came out of the sizing die.

I did everything by testing resized brass in my chamber until the bolt dropped easily. Then I set the lock ring.

I would then make a dummy round to figure out where my bullet was with respect to the lands. I used a sharpie pen or Blue Dykem to know when I stopped touching the lands. Then I turned the seating stem in 1/8 turn and checked again. When there was absolutely no contact marks I was done and I set the lock ring on the stem. Very early I replaced all the knurled lock rings on my RCBS seating stems with hex nuts so I could torque them down. They come with the hex nuts out of the box now.

My point is that a lot of the tools we have today are cool and all, but you can safely reload ammo without them. It will not be bench rest accurate, but I put a lot of meat on our table with that ammo before I got the tools to make a better product.

I use L.E. Wilson gages now and love them. I find my COAL today with the "Locktite Method". I do not use any fancy red tools for anything.

I also walked to work uphill in the snow both ways. I can afford any tool I want now, but those cheapskate handloading methods still work.

I’ve seen some videos where guys take their firing pin and ejector out to see how easy the bolt falls closed. I’m not doing that but I did put my resized brass in my chamber to see if it closed okay and ejected then dropped them in a Lyman ammo checker. Is that a good way to check that the brass is good to go before I add powder and a bullett?

 

[Potsie]

I’ve seen some videos where guys take their firing pin and ejector out to see how easy the bolt falls closed. I’m not doing that but I did put my resized brass in my chamber to see if it closed okay and ejected then dropped them in a Lyman ammo checker. Is that a good way to check that the brass is good to go before I add powder and a bullett?

Absolutely. If you Full Length resized you should be golden. The whole bump the shoulder back .002 is a way work your brass less (less work hardening) and ultimately sizing the brass to your chamber instead of the SAAMI spec.

 

[mtmuley]

54 posts for something so simple. mtmuley

 

[markwilks]

54 posts for something so simple. mtmuley

I’m sorry but it’s not simple for a guy new to reloading and being my first time reloading a rifle much less belted magnum. I appreciate all the help from you all.

 

[mtmuley]

I’m sorry but it’s not simple for a guy new to reloading and being my first time reloading a rifle much less belted magnum. I appreciate all the help from you all.

I get that. That's why I think the simple answer was best. No need to concern yourself with anything else except sizing your brass to fit your rifle. The rest will come along as you go. mtmuley

 

[markwilks]

I get that. That's why I think the simple answer was best. No need to concern yourself with anything else except sizing your brass to fit your rifle. The rest will come along as you go. mtmuley

Thank you sir

 

[WapitiBob]

So what’s another way to check that measurement. I’m new but seems like you don’t like the comparator. I’m a sponge to learn a better way.

Smoke the shoulder; run the shoulder of the case thru a wax candle flame. Screw the die down till it touches the soot.

 

[markwilks]

One last question. When I first ran my brass through the FL die the shoulder came out to about 2.12 +. I then was trying to copy what my loaded Nosler ammo shoulder measured at 2.104 so I kept turning the die down till I got to about 2.105. Did I ruin those cases? Is it dangerous to reload those and risk case separation? I really don’t want to damage my new rifle. Thanks again. I’ve got a new die set coming and was hoping I can start over and take the cases I’ve only sized down to 2.12 and run them through again then call it good and not worry about the measurement of the shoulder. At most the 2.12 cases got FL sized and bumped twice.