Feral Horse Hunts Anyone???

[RobG]

I could give a FF about the publics perception, when that perception is based on emotion, hear-say, biased opinions, and anecdotal "evidence".

Yup, you and a lot of people. And that is why this problem is probably not going to be solved.

 

[Washington Hunter]

I'd gladly shoot a feral horse and put it in my freezer. I'd even pay for the opportunity to do so.

 

[Walkathon]

They need to be managed, but I'm not eating one. No problem with other people shooting and eating them

 

[Big Fin]

The public perception of what is going on is what matters.

I totally agree with you on that point. It is a huge PR challenge to get people to understand. The science side can be determined, the PR and social messaging is the complex part.

 

[1_pointer]

Well, even if they are "easily regulated/managed" the BLM can't seem to do it very well, especially in arid places. Their mismanagement of cattle has resulted in a lot of people not feeling the need to swap horses for them. Take cattle out of the equation and the problem will get easier... enviros/conservationists don't like the feral horses either.

Pull your skirt hem down, your bias is showing...

 

[Jorgy]

I had a great talk around the campfire a few years back as I was with a group of guys hunting in wild horse area here in Colorado. The decisions was made that we had to come up with a trophy distinction for a horse before they can be managed properly. It's weird, we really had to search to figure out what would make a "trophy" horse. Longest mane, nose to tail length, can't really weigh one the way we hunt. We thought alot of guys seem to need a reason to hunt a specific animal. I don't think we ever settled that one.

Best idea after many cocktails was to do a fishing style tournament where the blm goes into a area and tags a few horses that you can't see under the mane, then a week or so later you hold a big hunt. The guys who shoot those horses wins a prize, maybe dog food for a year, get purina to sponsor it.

 

[Irrelevant]

I have been talking about this issue with my friends and family for years. Though WA isn't known as a feral horse hot spot, the Yakima Reservation has a huge problem. I drive through there every month or so and have witnessed how hard they are on the land. I used to see tons of deer, but haven't seen any in several years now. I would love to hunt them, that's a lot of tasty (I assume) meat. Heck I've thought about trying to get a group of guys together and go out in the middle of the week and try to take care of as many of them as possible in one day.

 

[DRAFTSTUD]

It is everywhere. When they passed laws to outlaw the processing of horses a while back and hay hit record prices every state in the country all of a sudden had "Wild Horses" on their Federal or State Lands. We have a wild herd on Ft. Polk down by Leesville, LA. I don't know if they have backed off the selling and processing of horses yet, but it has to happen as the weekend rider who has room for only one horse is stuck with a 30 year old nag with no way to get rid of it. John

 

[The Hedgehog]

Way more fun that shooting housecats or prairie dogs.

 

[BKHunter]

Personally I would hunt and eat a feral horse just like I have hunted and eaten feral hogs, but I have always been an adventurous eater as well as a hunter and feel a connection to my food. You could solve a lot of problems here with the hunting of feral horses, feeding the poor and hungry being one of them. The problem is changing the opinion of the general public who have been en grained to think a certain way.

 

[RobG]

Pull your skirt hem down, your bias is showing...

Gee, how grown up. And your bias isn't showing? FWIW, I do remember what you do.

I've been involved with a lot of biologists and even range scientists and the vast majority think the land (especially the riparian areas), fish, and wildlife would be a lot better off without cattle. Even some of my wife's coworkers at the BLM didn't like the way things were done but they had a job to do, and that is definitely a biased population. That doesn't mean they want cattle gone, they just acknowledge that the science says cattle don't make sense at the level they are used if your management goals are for native species. It all depends on your objective... if you want multiple use you manage it different, but real scientist acknowledge that multiple use comes at a cost to the native animals and don't whine about skirt hems.

 

[BuzzH]

The public has a pretty high perception of the Marlboro man...maybe even higher than feral horses.

Good luck with that.

 

[RobG]

Based on opinions of those with professional training of range science and scientific study, or personal anecdotal observation?

I guess I'll answer this even if it tangential. Most of the biologists I know think, in general, grazing is overdone and it is harmful. I'd say ask any FWP biologist and I bet they'd say they rather the beasts weren't on the landscape... A range scientist is a bit biased given the ones who see the problems choose another profession, but Hocket is from a ranching family and has a degree in range management and you know where he stands. Jim Bailey was a professor in wildlife biology, the people I knew at IDF&G didn't like cows... so generally I'd say the scientific community would prefer no cattle... and no horses either.

 

[1_pointer]

Gee, how grown up. And your bias isn't showing? FWIW, I do remember what you do.

I've been involved with a lot of biologists and even range scientists and the vast majority think the land (especially the riparian areas), fish, and wildlife would be a lot better off without cattle. Even some of my wife's coworkers at the BLM didn't like the way things were done but they had a job to do, and that is definitely a biased population. That doesn't mean they want cattle gone, they just acknowledge that the science says cattle don't make sense at the level they are used if your management goals are for native species. It all depends on your objective... if you want multiple use you manage it different, but real scientist acknowledge that multiple use comes at a cost to the native animals and don't whine about skirt hems.

I didn't bring cattle into the discussion but you attributed that stance to me in your response by quoting me. I stated my opinion based on being involved with managing land that had to deal with 'wild' horse herds. I do not seek my the issue being remedied to a level that matters without a change to the WHBA. It hamstrings management of horse numbers by limiting the options for controlling the population. Those same hurdles do not exist for controlling permitted livestock grazing. I've been a part of removing both from federal lands.

I am far from an apologist for unfettered grazing. More than a few folks here can vouch for that having discussed the issue with me in person. That said, I am very well versed in the science as well as the regulatory side of managing grazing. i may define "better" differently than them but my bias is knowing that the science and regulatory mechanisms are in place for it to be done without wrecking the landscape or wildlife populations. And that grazing can be a part of a multiple use management plan.

PS- You remember what I did...
PPS- I am a real scientist and yes I will continue to whine about skirt hems.

 

[joelhunter]

Although I've never tried horse meat before, I would personally be ready willing and able to hunt and eat one--but probably wouldn't take any grip and grin pics. The problem is, I don't think I'm willing to give up my marriage in the process, and doubt my wife could handle a freezer stocked with horse. She's not an equestrian in any sense, but it was with great trepidation that she took those initial bites of venison steaks years ago. I'd bet horse would cross the line.

 

[RobG]

PS- You remember what I did...
PPS- I am a real scientist and yes I will continue to whine about skirt hems.

OK, I remember your education and thought you were still in the field... my original point was that a big obstacle to getting this problem solved is reduced horses simply means more cattle grazing. (In fact, cattlemen are suing to reduce horses.) Take the grazing out of the equation and more people will be willing to manage the horses. It still might not be able to be solved though... for better or worse you and I and everyone else has a say in how the land is managed and killing horses is a tough sell to start with.

 

[RobG]

Slaughtering horses for human consumption has been off/on illegal in the last few decades. I don't think you can do it now. What are the options for killing horses these days?

I remember when I was a kid there was a rendering plant NW of Great Falls... rumor was the horses were turned into glue. I think my dad may have even retired a few of his horses there, him being a practical man not seeing the need to feed a useless horse.

I'll add that hunting horses probably isn't going to happen and wouldn't be effective anyway. Bring on the wildlife services... the horse lovers hate them anyway. We could also introduce wolves...

 

[1_pointer]

OK, I remember your education and thought you were still in the field... my original point was that a big obstacle to getting this problem solved is reduced horses simply means more cattle grazing. (In fact, cattlemen are suing to reduce horses.) Take the grazing out of the equation and more people will be willing to manage the horses. It still might not be able to be solved though... for better or worse you and I and everyone else has a say in how the land is managed and killing horses is a tough sell to start with.

Note in my first post I never mentioned anything about a replacement for the horses. That's what triggered my snarky response.

What's your opinion of the lawsuits merits and rationale filed by the permittes? BLM has lost before and badly trying to reduce permitted livestock grazing when horse numbers were over land use plan objectives. IIRC over utilization was the reason for reducing the grazing permits. Kinda hard to tell the cause of the use between the two... But I did get to hear a "scientist" describe how cows use their lips to graze. In a court proceeding nonetheless.!

I agree that the general public, whom are very ignorant on the subject, like the idea of horses over cows. My point is that the current mechanisms in place for effective and timely management of cows is much better than those currently in place to wild horses. Do you disagree?

 

[The Hedgehog]

What would Joe Gutowski do?

 

[The Hedgehog]

I would actually plan to be at home to catch an outdoor TV episode of a Wyoming Red Desert mustang bowhunt.