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Endangered species Act in Danger?

Calif. Hunter

Active member
Joined
Dec 13, 2000
Messages
5,193
Location
Apple Valley, CA, USA
STARS ARE ALIGNING tomorrow to produce two seemingly contradictory
events in the
course of the 30-year-old Endangered Species Act, one of the nation's
best-known
conservation laws.
The eastern gray wolf will be formally proposed for removal from the
list of nearly
1,300 plants, animals and birds threatened with extinction, a step
touted by
Interior Secretary Gale A. Norton as a success story prompted by the
wolf's strong
resurgence in three Midwest states.

Meanwhile, the House Resources Committee is expected to approve
legislation that
would roll back federal protections that helped save the wolf, the
bald eagle and a
dozen other once-imperiled species.

Both developments, though, fit in a larger pattern of efforts to
accommodate the
farmers, ranchers, developers, miners, loggers and other private and
commercial
interests who have long considered the Endangered Species Act an
especially odious
federal dictate.

In fact, leaving the gray wolf to its own devices, even in the
Northeast states
where it has not yet reappeared, potentially represents a greater
unraveling of
protections than the committee action, which may be as far as the
legislation gets
this year.

Congress has been wrestling for at least a decade with attempts to
void the
Endangered Species Act. But not even the Republican-led House, which
typically
moves in lockstep in such policy fights, has been willing to tamper
with a law that
remains broadly popular with voters.

President Bush doesn't feel such constraints, and has moved to weaken
enforcement
of the law through regulatory means, much as he has with other
environmental
protections. Those changes include sharply decreasing the number of
new species
added to the list each year and curtailing new acreage of "critical
habitat"
designated off limits for their protection.

House Resource Committee Chairman Richard W. Pombo, a California
rancher and
leading critic of the Endangered Species Act, argues it has been a
failure because
only a handful of species listed have recovered their populations,
despite costly
economic disruptions to property owners.

But most have been saved from extinction, and natural habitat has been
spared for
the benefit of all the wild things living there.

A Bush policy favoring incentives to landowners to protect habitat
over bitterly
received federal prohibitions might work fine if money is available.
As a last
resort, though, strict protections must remain on the books not only
for the sake
of wolves and eagles and less-glamorous critters but also for the vast
ecological
universe of which they are an integral part.
 
President Bush doesn't feel such constraints, and has moved to weaken enforcement of the law through regulatory means, much as he has with other environmental protections.
:rolleyes:

It is amazing that anyone who calls themself a hunter could vote for Dubya.... :(
 
It is interesting that Dubya does not feel compelled to protect a law that is "a law that
remains broadly popular with voters".

Gosh, if he doesn't listen to the Voters, who does he listen to???? Maybe the "farmers, ranchers, developers, miners, loggers and other private and commercial interests"?

Funny, he doesn't seem to add "hunters" or "taxpayers" to who listens....
 
"Meanwhile, the House Resources Committee is expected to approve
legislation that
would roll back federal protections that helped save the wolf, the
bald eagle and a
dozen other once-imperiled species."


That looks to me like it is the House of Representatives, not Bush.


As far as who to vote for, there is no even decent candidate this time who has a chance of winning. I may have to vote Libertarian!
 
Ithaca,
Back in the early 1900's when you went to school did they teach you about the three branches of Govenment and the system of checks and balances that were laid out in the Constitution?


Nemont
 
Nemont, Sure. Do you think the House Resources Comm. would be trying to weaken the ESA if there was an administration in office that had a better record of being concerned about the environmemt or wildlife? The House Resources Comm. would know that any Dem. administration would veto a bill weakening the ESA and they probably wouldn't even waste time on it. In fact, I believe many Republican administrations would veto it. After all, the ESA was passed by the Nixon Administration.

I suspect the Dubya administration is encouraging the House Resources Comm. to try to weaken the ESA.

There's no doubt that Dubya's administration is more anti-environmemt and anti-wildlife habitat than any administration in at least 50 years. Even Reagan's James Watt crew of sagebrush rebellion nuts wasn't as bad as Dubya's gang.
 
I suspect the Dubya administration is encouraging the House Resources Comm. to try to weaken the ESA.
Ithaca,
I have never said that President Bush was an environmental president. If I had to vote on hunting issues then I most likely would have to write in a candidate.

You continue to make accusations like the one quoted above and then say " Anyone who cares about wildlife, hunting and fishing would have to be crazy to vote for Bush". I care about hunting and wildlife and fishing as much or more then anyone else. I have three kids I want to pass on that heritage to. Unfortunately in the times we live in I have to make choices regarding issues other then just hunting and fishing.

Tell me what the other two candidates do for wildlife, habitat, hunting traditions and fishing? Tell me what kind of legacy JFK or Nader will leave for my children to inherit? At least with President Bush he is tough on terrorism which is a threat to much more then just hunting and fishing. I am not the only one who thinks Bush would handle Terrorism better then either Nader or JFK so do a majority of Americans who don't have the luxury of making a decision based only on one issue.

http://abcnews.go.com/images/pdf/957a1ConventionOpener.pdf

I know I won't change your mind but for me I don't get to vote on one single issue regarding this election. So I won't ask for proof again. Go ahead and bash Bush alot as even the Democrats have learned that is counter productive and turns alot of the middle roaders off.

Nemont
 
Nemont, "Tell me what the other two candidates do for wildlife, habitat, hunting traditions and fishing?" Hard to say, exactly. I do know that they can't help being better than Dubya on those issues. Anything that slows down the rate of habitat loss would be better for wildlife, habitat, hunting traditions and fishing.
 
Nemont,

I agree that voting on a single issue isnt a good thing.

That being said, I dont think hunting and fishing are the only things that Bush is falling down on.

The sad thing about shrub is, all he had to do was keep the status quo on environmental issues. He wasnt smart enough to do that. What does he do? Decides to drill the Front, drill the Powder River Basin, Northern New Mexico, Colorado, etc. and rip big-game habitat. Threatens to cut wetlands protections, the Conservation Reserve Program, etc. etc. etc.

Its just sad that he makes his disregard for wildlife and wildlands so obvious and his support of industry equally as obvious. Nothing wrong with either, but how about some moderation?

Then on top of that you throw in the huge deficit, the lies of WMD's, poor foreign policy, etc. etc.

I'm left with very little to support.

By the way, I also agree that there is no promise of JFK doing any better. But, I just cant vote for the current disaster in the whitehouse.

Politics suck.
 
Buzz,
I agree politics sucks. It is to bad that there isn't a better choice but look at what happens in the media when Mrs. Heinz-Kerry tells a reporter to shove it. Never mind he most likely deserved that comment. Cheney tells a senator to f__k off and that makes national headlines.

If that kind of scrutiny is constant who would want to be in that spotlight. Not me for sure.

There just is no way I can vote for Kerry as I disagree with all of his policies and positions. I can agree with Bush on some issues so he gets my vote. Voting for Nader will only waste my vote and I won't do that.

Nemont
 
Nemont, Do you actually know Kerry's positions? Here's his agenda on the environment. What part do you disagree with?

"As Americans, we have the right to breathe unpolluted air, drink safe water, eat uncontaminated food, live in clean communities and enjoy our natural treasures. Over the last three years, we have seen these rights eroded. We have seen hard-won environmental gains rolled back, our air polluted and our water contaminated.
In the 21st Century, we can have progress without pollution - we can grow our economy while protecting our natural resources. But we need a leader who looks to the future and invests in innovation.

Throughout his career, John Kerry has fought to clean up toxic waste sites, to keep our air and water clean, and to protect the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and other pristine wilderness areas. Recently, the League of Conservation Voters called Senator Kerry an "environmental champion."

John Kerry and John Edwards will set a new standard of environmental excellence for America. They will honor our national treasures and pay tribute to our natural wonders, while renewing our nation's promise of clean air, clean water and a bountiful landscape for all. They recognize that we owe it to our families, our communities, and our planet to defend our environmental values and protect our environmental rights.

John Kerry and John Edwards will:

Create Cleaner, Greener Communities
Together, we can improve the environment in backyards and communities across America. John Kerry and John Edwards will revitalize contaminated industrial sites, get toxics out of communities, guarantee our children access to clean, safe parks and baseball fields, and take on traffic congestion and sprawl.

Enact A Conservation Covenant With America
John Kerry and John Edwards believe that Americans are united in our respect for the land. They will enact a Conservation Covenant with America to ensure balanced protection for our public lands and adequate resources to enhance our national parks.

Protect Our Health By Reducing Dangerous Air Emissions
As president, John Kerry will reverse the Bush-Cheney rollbacks to our Clean Air Act, plug loopholes in the law, take aggressive action to stop acid rain, and use innovative, job-creating programs to reduce mercury emissions and other emissions that contribute to global warming.

Restore America's Waters
Today, approximately 45 percent of our nation's waterways do not meet the "drinkable, swimable and fishable" standard set out by the Clean Water Act 30 years ago. As president, John Kerry will implement a "Restore America's Waters" campaign, an integrated approach to protecting our precious, limited water resources. He will work with states on the toughest water quality challenges, restore damaged watersheds, protect wetlands, invest in our waterfronts and coastal communities, and protect our oceans."
 
Ithaca,
I actually do know his positions as I have studied them at length regarding issues other then the environment.

Everything you posted are campaign promises not items he has gotten done. If the house and senate remain in Republican hands, which may or may not happen, Kerry will have to dial back on some of those agenda items and compromise because there will be bigger issues that they will have to deal with.

He voted against nearly every major weapons systems developed during his terms in the senate. He believes that government in higher taxes, roll back of current tax relief. He believes the current terrorist threat should be a law enforcement issue rather then a military one. Even Richard Clarke said that is where Clinton made a mistake.

He believes that he knows better then I do how to spend my own money. He worships at the altar of the U.N.

I could go on and on but I know you won't hear me. If you truly believe that all those warm and fuzzy promises will be fulfilled that is great. I have yet to see that vague campaign slogan translate into action.

Also, since you don't read my posts I will repeat I can't vote solely on the environment. I have to think about other issues. If you can narrow your political focus to a single issue I hope that it works out for you.

Nemont
 
Nemont,

I agree with you, all politicians tell you they are going to do this and that, and then never do. I dont believe that Kerry/Edwards can do even 1/3 of what they think they can.

But, what I do know for sure, at least on the environment/wildlife/hunting issue, they will do more than shrub has.

The only part of your post I found humorous was this though, "current tax relief". HAHA thats pretty funny, have you checked your pay stubs lately?

Calling shrubs tax plan "tax relief" is about like calling the ovens at aushwitz a tanning salon...
 
Buzz,
I am glad you find that humerous. I made more money in 03 then I did in 02 and I paid $3,100 less in taxes for the 03 tax years. Montana taxes remained steady but the federal taxes paid went down.

Maybe my accountant is just more agressive this year and writing off more of my hunting expenses as client relations expenses I don't know.

Nemont

[ 07-29-2004, 13:43: Message edited by: Nemont ]
 
It could be that you have 3 chitlins and I dont...its great being in the highest taxed group in the U.S. Marriage penalty and no dependents, you gotta love it.

I did get the whopping $300 check though.
 
Nemont,

A couple of thoughts or questions.

Do you really disagree with ALL of Kerry's policies and positions? I find it a bit difficult to believe that he is 0 for a 100% with you. To me, he and Dubya have the same position on many issues....

And don't hold Teresa's comment against her too much. Remember, even Babs Bush, Sr. called Geraldine Ferraro a "Witch witha B"....

As for taxes, if your income tax went down $3000, but your personal share of the Budget Deficit went up $5000, did you really get a tax break, or did you just burden your children with paying for your current lavish lifestyle???

And didn't I hear something about Dubya not giving us our August Bonus for having children this summer? You know, that $400 check that shows up for each kid???
 
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