Elk > Deer

[accubond]

Maybe this gets talked about more than I see but I personally don't think we're talking about this enough. I've heard from several old timers on the mountain over the years tell me how "there used to be 4 point bucks all over this unit and very few elk and now all we see is elk". I've witnessed, to a lesser extent, a similar phenomenon on my deer/elk hunts over the last 25 years and as a matter of fact, I've seen and taken more 6 point bulls than I have 4 point deer and most of those hunts were deer hunts with an elk tag in my pocket.

Let's just look at a small snapshot of Colorado alone, in 2019 the statewide deer and elk numbers were 418,310 and 292,760 respectively. Fast forward to 2023 and those same deer and elk numbers are 375,710 and 303,390 respectively. I can't find the archived herd date since they've updated the site but I'm confident this trend has been happening for much longer than the past 5 years. So, as deer continue to decline the elk are still climbing and this is even despite the historic winter that ravaged one the state's largest elk herds a couple years ago. The cynic in me tells me the states are aware of this but downplay its significance due to the cash cow of a growing elk herd and its larger price tag.

What do you guys think? I know there are several other factors at play here but the longer I observe this the more I think this is more of a smoking gun than others realize or care to admit. Don't get me wrong, I'm taking full advantage of these larger elk herds and striking while the iron is hot, but my true passion is to hunt mule deer, and I just feel like we're increasing our elk herds at the cost of our deer herds.

 

[MTTW]

I agree with you. That said in the area that I hunt you can't reduce the elk because of harboring even if there was the will.

I have solved this problem by no longer identifying as a mule deer hunter after 50 years of obsessing about them.

It is kinda nice hunting something that isn't on the brink of eradication, not to mention a hell of a lot easier as I age.

This conversation will likely be short because there is a lack of science to support it, purposly I suspect.

 

[Irrelevant]

https://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/mule_deer/mdwg-4_elk.pdf

 

[TOGIE]

kinda hard to think of place elk aren't doing generally quite well.

and, hard to think of place mule deer generally are doing well.

 

[Laelkhunter]

I seem to think it could be true. From what I understand, for the most part the deer are kinda "resident deer" which I think means they don't travel far, and elk are more migratory which means they travel long distances. That equates to the local deer are being hunted out and when they're gone they're gone whereas elk tend to travel many miles in their migration so the ones that get shot are replaced by ones that will migrate and pass through the area sooner or later. I could be wrong. You tend to see elk herds with many elk in the herd and the deer are only three or four in a group (can't call them a herd).

 

[accubond]

https://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/mule_deer/mdwg-4_elk.pdf

Interesting, thanks for posting.

 

[Gr8bawana]

If you think about it back in the "good old days" there were a lot less hunters to begin with. Deer were more apt to live to an older age so yes there were more 4 point buck out there.
When I first started hunting in the late 70's it did seem like there were deer everywhere. Fast forward to the present and there has been a decades long drought, many more hunters with better equipment riding their blasted atv's everywhere.
Lots of lost and destroyed habitat through human encroachment and wildfires that we will never get back.

 

[accubond]

If you think about it back in the "good old days" there were a lot less hunters to begin with. Deer were more apt to live to an older age so yes there were more 4 point buck out there.
When I first started hunting in the late 70's it did seem like there were deer everywhere. Fast forward to the present and there has been a decades long drought, many more hunters with better equipment riding their blasted atv's everywhere.
Lots of lost and destroyed habitat through human encroachment and wildfires that we will never get back.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying but how can the elk population explode with all of this going on? I've also noted elk from top to bottom at all times of the year, they aren't just in the high country most of the year, they're living at all elevations in a lot of areas and a lot of those areas used to be crawling with deer.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

I think that all the variables that factor into elk and deer populations are lined up much better for elk than for deer and have been for quite some time. The last 40 years have been a great time to be an elk and a crap time to be a deer. That being said, I dont think for a minute that if we decimated elk herds, deer populations would suddenly rebound. I think we would just end up with way less elk and continuing to decline MD populations.

 

[Caseknife]

I believe that elk are more adaptable than mule deer when it comes to habitat change. They have a much broader diet and aren't as "put off" by human encroachment. To put that in prospective, in the land of excess wolves, seems that the elk will tolerate humans more than wolves and will tend to change patterns to stay closer to humans. That is what we have determined anyway.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

kinda hard to think of place elk aren't doing generally quite well.

NW MT, N ID.

and, hard to think of place mule deer generally are doing well.

Where I hunted CO 2nd season this year was crawling with mule deer. Not sure what long term looked like but i can’t imagine wanting higher numbers. Better sex/age class balance would be nice though.

But yes, generally agree with the sentiment.

 

[Westside24]

Maybe this gets talked about more than I see but I personally don't think we're talking about this enough. I've heard from several old timers on the mountain over the years tell me how "there used to be 4 point bucks all over this unit and very few elk and now all we see is elk". I've witnessed, to a lesser extent, a similar phenomenon on my deer/elk hunts over the last 25 years and as a matter of fact, I've seen and taken more 6 point bulls than I have 4 point deer and most of those hunts were deer hunts with an elk tag in my pocket.

Let's just look at a small snapshot of Colorado alone, in 2019 the statewide deer and elk numbers were 418,310 and 292,760 respectively. Fast forward to 2023 and those same deer and elk numbers are 375,710 and 303,390 respectively. I can't find the archived herd date since they've updated the site but I'm confident this trend has been happening for much longer than the past 5 years. So, as deer continue to decline the elk are still climbing and this is even despite the historic winter that ravaged one the state's largest elk herds a couple years ago. The cynic in me tells me the states are aware of this but downplay its significance due to the cash cow of a growing elk herd and its larger price tag.

What do you guys think? I know there are several other factors at play here but the longer I observe this the more I think this is more of a smoking gun than others realize or care to admit. Don't get me wrong, I'm taking full advantage of these larger elk herds and striking while the iron is hot, but my true passion is to hunt mule deer, and I just feel like we're increasing our elk herds at the cost of our deer herds.

One of the theories on it I've heard is that elk are more adaptable to change but mule deer don't seem to be. If there are new obstacles on their migration route or something like that that changes their routine they don't deal with it as well as elk.

 

[INMT]

TOGIE said:
kinda hard to think of place elk aren't doing generally quite well.

NW MT, N ID.

^^^

 

[Maverick1]

I have not hunted or lived in an area long enough to be able to speak accurately about the elk/deer population in a particular region.

I have, however, came across some experienced "old timers" on the mountains over the years that have said similar things regarding the historical elk and/or deer populations on a particular mountain or areas.

Some of these people have even told me there's no way I could ever shoot an elk with my bow because the elk populations are way down in that particular area: it's been run over by mule deer! (Which I find interesting - been filling elk tags two decades now with the bow, almost consecutively, from out of state. I don't share that information, just shake my head in agreement with them and move along.)

Sometimes you have to look for the ulterior motive behind the message and words they are speaking. Sometimes it is subtle, other times not so much.