Elk Camp At the Capitol - January 24th 2023

[mtmiller]

but I don’t think an 8 hour/1 day refresher would be a bad option to require for state access opportunities. Anyone wanting to hunt block management, WMA’s, or damage hunts could easily do a “refresher” every so often.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but where will these refreshers be held? Long trip for me to the Last Best Place; Bozeman.

 

[MNElkNut]

I really liked this!:

Supply a list of names of licensed hunters who have been convicted of hunting without landowner permission to Landowners enrolled in public access programs in order to disallow convicted persons from using those programs.

However, removing the 2550 NR licenses from public land use just made it much harder for a DIY/public land guy to get a license, correct? That doesn't feel good.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I'm going to go out on a limb, and say the hunters that are causing the most landowner conflicts won't be the ones lining up to take a voluntary ethics course.

Seems like a pie in the sky idea, and like @onpoint and @JLS brought up 3 years ago, a very slippery slope to start down.

Setting this up through the agency provides sideboards, and it can be used as a part of sentencing for wildlife crimes. there's already a "remedial hunter's ed course" that some convicted folks are sentenced to take. This could be part of that.

It also could be available for those who want to take the course, but don't have the $500 that Master Hunter costs. Ravalli Co. Fish & Wildlife does and enhanced hunter ed that is likely a better, less intensive fit for the agency and covers a lot of the stuff Master Hunter does but is more economically scaled.

A study bill is meant to look at options relative to how you can do this through the state. It does not guarantee any bill or action beyond studying the issue. There's a long road ahead of this getting anywhere close to being an actual thing, and the point is to try an find ways to help create more ethical hunters, rather than doing the same thing and expecting different results.

 

[mtmiller]

It also could be available for those who want to take the course, but don't have would never pay the $500 that Master Hunter costs. Ravalli Co. Fish & Wildlife does and enhanced hunter ed that is likely a better, less intensive fit for the agency and covers a lot of the stuff Master Hunter does but is more economically scaled.

 

[DFS]

I really liked this!:

Supply a list of names of licensed hunters who have been convicted of hunting without landowner permission to Landowners enrolled in public access programs in order to disallow convicted persons from using those programs.

However, removing the 2550 NR licenses from public land use just made it much harder for a DIY/public land guy to get a license, correct? That doesn't feel good.

Much of Montana’s wildlife habitat is on private land. The push for public land diy moved a lot of tags that used to get hunted on private to public. Public land can’t withstand the pressure from residents and nonresidents. It’s sucks but it’s just a fact.

 

[Eric Albus]

I too believe this, BUT the representatives of the Outfitters rarely show up when we fight for the resource. This group is the first that I've witnessed.

Mule Deer next?

When we (Ravalli County Fish & Wildlife ass.) pushed to go to the (now famous) limited mule deer permits for the areas around the Root, the Outfitters were our biggest detractors. They wanted their clients to have access to a potential forky no matter what. My hope is that has changed.

I know many outfitters have benefited by the permits as they have had clients that drew and wanted the hunt outfitted so they got the biggest deer possible.

As I’ve stated before, MOGA is a business trade organization, not a wildlife advocacy organization.

I don’t think the elk issue is completely solved yet, but am hopeful some of the solutions brought forward will help.

Mule deer next. Our biggest obstacle is going to be FWP and their CWD excuse to keep killing fork horns.

 

[huntin24/7]

As I’ve stated before, MOGA is a business trade organization, not a wildlife advocacy organization.

I don’t think the elk issue is completely solved yet, but am hopeful some of the solutions brought forward will help.

Mule deer next. Our biggest obstacle is going to be FWP and their CWD excuse to keep killing fork horns.

The cwd issue as you mention really concerns me as well. I’m not one of these guys who doesn’t take cwd seriously and isn’t concerned about it. But I’m also concerned about how MT and other states seem to want to use it as the reason to manage the mule deer herd in a way that contributes to poor age structure and low mule deer numbers.

 

[shoots-straight]

As I’ve stated before, MOGA is a business trade organization, not a wildlife advocacy organization.

I don’t think the elk issue is completely solved yet, but am hopeful some of the solutions brought forward will help.

Mule deer next. Our biggest obstacle is going to be FWP and their CWD excuse to keep killing fork horns.

MOGA's members make money off the resource. So wouldn't a strong resource be good for a strong MOGA?

 

[Unlucky]

FWP new slogan. Want better hunting, get permission on private.

FWP mule deer recommendations. Apply for out of state tags.

FWP elk recommendations. Kiss a landowners ass so they will allow u to kill a cow elk.

I fail to see the significance of any of it either. In the big scheme of management.

 

[Unlucky]

I wonder why the town of sheridan mt has more mule deer in it than the public land of the god dam tobacco roots. Just on that observation would lead me to belief that the town of sheridan mt is better at managing mule deer than fwp

 

[Eric Albus]

MOGA's members make money off the resource. So wouldn't a strong resource be good for a strong MOGA?

A strong resource is what we are advocating for, in case you’ve not listened to myself or Rod Paschke or dozens of other outfitters I know. Some of us to the detriment of our business models. I’ve told FWP leadership if it’s “keep status quo, or go LEP, I vote limited entry permits”.

The resource must be first. If it were there’d be plenty of elk & deer on accessible lands.


Just an FYI.

Half or just under half of the outfitters who are hunting outfitters are MOGA members. The rest are a bunch of free grazing parasites who’ve benefited from the time and money of those of us who do the work.

If I sound a bit disgusted/disappointed in the parasites it’s because I meant to.

 

[bigsky2]

A strong resource is what we are advocating for, in case you’ve not listened to myself or Rod Paschke or dozens of other outfitters I know. Some of us to the detriment of our business models. I’ve told FWP leadership if it’s “keep status quo, or go LEP, I vote limited entry permits”.

The resource must be first. If it were there’d be plenty of elk & deer on accessible lands.


Just an FYI.

Half or just under half of the outfitters who are hunting outfitters are MOGA members. The rest are a bunch of free grazing parasites who’ve benefited from the time and money of those of us who do the work.

If I sound a bit disgusted/disappointed in the parasites it’s because I meant to.

I admittedly am not familiar with many outfitters. The one that operates around where I hunt doesn’t seem too concerned about the resource as long as there’s enough 3 year old mule deer bucks to go around for his clients. It seems the only thing that limits the number of bucks they kill is the length of the season. It’s pretty amazing what caliber of bucks people are willing to pay thousands of dollars to shoot. Maybe he is one of the parasites you are referring to.

It’s nice to know there are a few outfitters like you who are advocating for the resource.

 

[shoots-straight]

A strong resource is what we are advocating for, in case you’ve not listened to myself or Rod Paschke or dozens of other outfitters I know. Some of us to the detriment of our business models. I’ve told FWP leadership if it’s “keep status quo, or go LEP, I vote limited entry permits”.

The resource must be first. If it were there’d be plenty of elk & deer on accessible lands.


Just an FYI.

Half or just under half of the outfitters who are hunting outfitters are MOGA members. The rest are a bunch of free grazing parasites who’ve benefited from the time and money of those of us who do the work.

If I sound a bit disgusted/disappointed in the parasites it’s because I meant to.

Glad to see the 180* turnaround. I've been paying attention, believe me.