Elk Behavior Question

[CiK]

I have a few questions about scouting and elk.

I used to tournament fish for bass, and 9 out of 10 times…I could catch a bass off a stump on a point and come back 1 hour later and catch another. That feature drew them in to the spot. Does the same thing work for elk?

Let's say I am out scouting for elk in the early season. While walking around, I bump some elk.

With your experience, how far do those elk go? Will those elk return soon to that spot again or are those elk gone for good?

A part of me wants to believe that they might return. If the habitat was good enough for them once, it would be good enough for them again. And even if they don’t return, maybe another elk will use it soon.

Tony

 

[MNElkNut]

In my opinion no. Elk are not whitetails or bass. When bumped, they will go a long ways-measured in miles most likely. Also, they are travelers compared to whitetails and cover large distances routinely. Will they be back much later or next year? Quite possibly. But I would guess in most cases not in the next few days. If bumped during summer scouting they may be back for early season. But if bumped during the season, unless it is some really dynamic habitat feature, I don't think they will be back. Just my .02

 

[Muskeez]

CiK, I am a rookie elk hunter, but I get what you are saying. When I first started elk hunting I looked at the topo maps like I do a lake map. I looked for funnels and saddles, in the woods, just like I do while fishing. Think of benches as flats on the side of a breakline. I can't speak to a specific group of elk coming back to an area, but I would bet that a good elk area one year will usually be a good one next year. Seasonal movements will be different though, just like I bet that stump doesn't produce all year round. Best wishes!

 

[Muley_Stalker]

The first mistake you'd make is you're just walking around, and bump them.

When you scout it should be just like the hunt. Find them without them knowing it. Combine your scouting with practice for hunting. Bump them scouting. You'll do the same when you're hunting.

Slow and sneaky is the way to full freezers. Practice it.

If you do bump them. Some will come back, and some won't. It depends on the circumstances. It's always better to not disturb them.

 

[CiK]

Muskeez, Thanks! I am definitely looking at these topo maps like a lake map. I learned that not every point was the same. You had to find the ones that had a little extra something to it that kept the fish there.

The first mistake you'd make is you're just walking around, and bump them.

When you scout it should be just like the hunt. Find them without them knowing it. Combine your scouting with practice for hunting. Bump them scouting. You'll do the same when you're hunting.

Slow and sneaky is the way to full freezers. Practice it.

If you do bump them. Some will come back, and some won't. It depends on the circumstances. It's always better to not disturb them.

ElkStalker, I was listening to Big Fin's last podcast with Corey, and they said something to the affect of "They would rather walk around for 3 days scouting than spend 3 days hunting in an area that has no elk". What they said and what you are saying seem to be two different strategies to me.

So here is me peeling the onion back a bit more......I live in the Midwest and I am planning my first Idaho public land OTC DIY hunt. Boots on the ground before my hunt is not in the cards for me......and I won't come on here and ask for honey hole information because as a tournament fisherman, I wasn't giving that hard earned information out to people either.....I get it.

So instead, I am trying to play it out in my head what happens when I get to my computer created starting point. I would like to hike in, drop camp and then scout around. When I said "scout" in my earlier post, I wasn't talking about summer scouting because I can't do that. What I meant was the first few days of a 7 day hunt.

Big Fin always talks about getting in on there first few days of a hunt and scouting. When doing that, what is a good strategy? Do I just walk around aimlessly until I see or hear elk?

I asked about bumping elk because I am worried I would.....and I was hoping they would come back like a bass.

Tony

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

It probably depends on the area you are hunting as well. You may get a little more forgiveness in a tough to draw area where the elk are less educated by hunters.

Also, it may depend on how bad you "bump" them. If you blow elk out (ie: pounding hooves), you probably should just look elsewhere. But, as Stalker said above, if you keep the wind good and are sneaking effectively, the elk might just have their spidey sense triggered, and decide to move off because something just doesn't feel right. In that case the terrain they were on might pull them back in another day. You also have the potential that another hunter could bump them back, but it is all random.

I don't have near as much experience hunting elk as some guys do around here, but what I have seen, the worst thing you can do is have the elk smell you, you might as well go elsewhere.

 

[jimss]

Elk tend to spook to areas with the least amount of disturbance and hunting pressure. That often means lightly hunted private land or secluded areas away from roads in super rough country. Obviously if possible it's good to get up high and glass rather than hike and spook animals. One of elk's best features is their sense of smell....keep that in mind! Elk's vision and hearing is also pretty remarkable.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

Big Fin's last podcast with Corey, and they said something to the affect of "They would rather walk around for 3 days scouting than spend 3 days hunting in an area that has no elk".

Scouting may have a different meaning that you are thinking. You can rule out a lot of country with glassing, listening, looking for sign, etc; while still staying out of their bedding areas. Randomly walking through timber, isn't going to be the best way to scout for elk anyway, because you can rarely much beyond what is immediately around you.

I would start by getting the best vantage point you can, and be on it early and late looking for elk that are coming out or heading back from feeding. This should help you rule out country pretty fast.

 

[Big Fin]

ElkStalker, I was listening to Big Fin's last podcast with Corey, and they said something to the affect of "They would rather walk around for 3 days scouting than spend 3 days hunting in an area that has no elk". What they said and what you are saying seem to be two different strategies to me.

So here is me peeling the onion back a bit more......I live in the Midwest and I am planning my first Idaho public land OTC DIY hunt. Boots on the ground before my hunt is not in the cards for me......and I won't come on here and ask for honey hole information because as a tournament fisherman, I wasn't giving that hard earned information out to people either.....I get it.

So instead, I am trying to play it out in my head what happens when I get to my computer created starting point. I would like to hike in, drop camp and then scout around. When I said "scout" in my earlier post, I wasn't talking about summer scouting because I can't do that. What I meant was the first few days of a 7 day hunt.

Big Fin always talks about getting in on there first few days of a hunt and scouting. When doing that, what is a good strategy? Do I just walk around aimlessly until I see or hear elk?

I asked about bumping elk because I am worried I would.....and I was hoping they would come back like a bass.

Tony

I use a lot of fishing parallels for find elk. Your thought about using a point or hump to locate bass is very similar to how you should approach elk. The bass is not on that point or point/hump all year round. They are there when being at that point/hump provides something that satisfies their need. Most often with fish, that need is food.

Elk are in the locations they are to satisfy one of four needs; three year-round needs (food, water, security) and one seasons need (breeding). These needs vary, based on the time of the year, or from the perspective of hunters, these needs vary based on what season you will be hunting.

Elk are not in a location just by happenstance. They choose their locations with a purpose. That purpose is to satisfy the need they have for the season in which you are hunting them.

In the book I am working on, I focus on five seasons - early, pre-rut, peak rut, post rut, and late season. Space does not allow for complete detail here, but briefly, early season is mostly August; pre-rut is late August and early September; peak rut is mid-September to early October, post-rut is late October, and late season is anything after November 1st. These general calendar points may vary by latitude.

You need to first think about what season you will be hunting. Then, determine what needs the elk has during that season. Then, use the map like you do for fishing to determine the places an elk will go to satisfy his needs during the season you are hunting.

For me, I have to approach this for a specific type of elk; mature public land bull elk. That is much different than private land or low pressured elk. It is much different than cows and young bulls. Do not confuse the seasonal needs of a low pressured elk to those of a highly pressured public land bull. You will be looking in the wrong spot.

We are getting ready to launch the first "Elk Talk" video, hopefully next Friday. That will be 30+ weekly videos that walk viewers through the entire process of applying for tags, developing a strategy to hunt elk every year, and in the summer segments we will get into what I call my "System." I hope all of you will subscribe to our YouTube channel to watch this Elk Talk series and share that with your hunting friends.

When I say my "System," It is not "Randy's" system in any proprietary way, like some other groups. It is me explaining how I go about doing just what you are doing; find places on a map that will give you pretty good odds of finding them over the course of your five day hunt. This "System" is what Corey was referring to in the Podcast.

Here is how I came about the process of approaching it the way I do. When we draw tags, we have five days to find elk, have some encounters, and get something on camera. Each episode costs me about $20K to produce. I cannot afford to be stumbling around depending on luck, though I will take all the luck I can get. When I show up, I know what season I am hunting, I know the needs of public land bull elk during that time, and I use maps and research to locate at least ten places to investigate while I am there. From my journal, when I first started approaching it this way, about 25% of my locations were correct. Now, it has creeped closer to 50%, largely due to being more experienced and have been made a fool of by a lot of smart public land bulls.

Hope that helps. Point being, don't look at maps for "structure" for the sake of "structure." Rather, look at maps to show you where elk will go to satisfy the need they have in the season you are hunting.

And for public land bull elk, the need most often being satisfied in rifle seasons of the west is SECURITY. To fulfill the need of security, you go where other hunters are less inclined to go. My general rule for hunting when security is the primary need goes something like this; "Elk will go where hunters won't."

 

[Muley_Stalker]

Muskeez, Thanks! I am definitely looking at these topo maps like a lake map. I learned that not every point was the same. You had to find the ones that had a little extra something to it that kept the fish there.




ElkStalker, I was listening to Big Fin's last podcast with Corey, and they said something to the affect of "They would rather walk around for 3 days scouting than spend 3 days hunting in an area that has no elk". What they said and what you are saying seem to be two different strategies to me.

So here is me peeling the onion back a bit more......I live in the Midwest and I am planning my first Idaho public land OTC DIY hunt. Boots on the ground before my hunt is not in the cards for me......and I won't come on here and ask for honey hole information because as a tournament fisherman, I wasn't giving that hard earned information out to people either.....I get it.

So instead, I am trying to play it out in my head what happens when I get to my computer created starting point. I would like to hike in, drop camp and then scout around. When I said "scout" in my earlier post, I wasn't talking about summer scouting because I can't do that. What I meant was the first few days of a 7 day hunt.

Big Fin always talks about getting in on there first few days of a hunt and scouting. When doing that, what is a good strategy? Do I just walk around aimlessly until I see or hear elk?

I asked about bumping elk because I am worried I would.....and I was hoping they would come back like a bass.

Tony

It sounds like you didn't understand what I said at all.

 

[CiK]

It sounds like you didn't understand what I said at all.

Sorry, I am trying to understand. I haven't even been in the elk woods and I have it on my mind all the time. I know I won't have it figured out without time there, but I am trying to get ahead of the curve.

I have never spot and stalked while hunting whitetail here in the Midwest, so walking through the woods fast or slow is foreign to me.

 

[Muley_Stalker]

Basically, what i'm saying is............once you have the areas picked out that you want to scout/hunt. Which means you think the area holds elk. You want to be very careful the elk don't see you if they're there. The best way to do that is to act like your hunting, and not just out for a woods walk.

Anytime you think elk can be in the area whether scouting or hunting. You need to be unseen, unheard, and unsmelled.

 

[CiK]

You need to first think about what season you will be hunting. Then, determine what needs the elk has during that season. Then, use the map like you do for fishing to determine the places an elk will go to satisfy his needs during the season you are hunting.

When I say my "System," It is not "Randy's" system in any proprietary way, like some other groups. It is me explaining how I go about doing just what you are doing; find places on a map that will give you pretty good odds of finding them over the course of your five day hunt. This "System" is what Corey was referring to in the Podcast.



Hope that helps. Point being, don't look at maps for "structure" for the sake of "structure." Rather, look at maps to show you where elk will go to satisfy the need they have in the season you are hunting.

Big Fin, I have memorized your rules, and I subscribe to every single one of your platforms. I am thirsty to learn and I am trying to get as much into the brain as I can before I set foot in the field.

I can certainly relate to the parallel in elk and bass seasons. When I fished, the seasons were Summer, Fall and Winter. Spring was broken into Pre-Spawn, Spawn and Post-Spawn. So for elk, the Early Season, Pre-Rut, Rut, Post-Rut and Late Season makes sense to me.

The season I will be hunting will be early-season to pre-rut. What topography is typical for breaking up bachelor groups getting ready to prowl for sass? I am guessing here, and would love some calibration.....but is high elevation near bedding areas with a good source of food a good spot to start? My thought process for that is this....its still hot (they need to be higher for cooler temps), they are getting ready to rut rut and rut and will need to put on some poundage for energy and sanctuary is always a most. Am I close? Or out in Left Field? If I am asking too much, just let me know.

Maybe I shouldn't think about where the bulls are and trying to intercept them, but instead think about where the cows are during that late August / Early September time-frame and let the bulls come to me? Where do estrousy cow elk hang out?

Big Fin, when is the book ready? Hurry!!

 

[CiK]

Basically, what i'm saying is............once you have the areas picked out that you want to scout/hunt. Which means you think the area holds elk. You want to be very careful the elk don't see you if they're there. The best way to do that is to act like your hunting, and not just out for a woods walk.

Anytime you think elk can be in the area whether scouting or hunting. You need to be unseen, unheard, and unsmelled.

I gotcha now. Thanks for clearing it up. I was working off the assumption I have no idea if there are elk in the woods I am walking around in, so being a little cautious is probably a good thing.

 

[Big Fin]

Big Fin, I have memorized your rules, and I subscribe to every single one of your platforms. I am thirsty to learn and I am trying to get as much into the brain as I can before I set foot in the field.

I can certainly relate to the parallel in elk and bass seasons. When I fished, the seasons were Summer, Fall and Winter. Spring was broken into Pre-Spawn, Spawn and Post-Spawn. So for elk, the Early Season, Pre-Rut, Rut, Post-Rut and Late Season makes sense to me.

The season I will be hunting will be early-season to pre-rut. What topography is typical for breaking up bachelor groups getting ready to prowl for sass? I am guessing here, and would love some calibration.....but is high elevation near bedding areas with a good source of food a good spot to start? My thought process for that is this....its still hot (they need to be higher for cooler temps), they are getting ready to rut rut and rut and will need to put on some poundage for energy and sanctuary is always a most. Am I close? Or out in Left Field? If I am asking too much, just let me know.

Maybe I shouldn't think about where the bulls are and trying to intercept them, but instead think about where the cows are during that late August / Early September time-frame and let the bulls come to me? Where do estrousy cow elk hang out?

Big Fin, when is the book ready? Hurry!!

Like all things, the answer is "It depends." Not sure where you plan to do this hunt. If Colorado, a state that opens that early, you will be surprised how high up you will find elk. Really, really high.

In the season you are hunting, the primary need for bulls is Food. They are still putting on the feed bag before the rut gets going. Raghorns and younger bulls might start staging closer to cow groups by late August, but if you are looking for mature bulls, look for food first, with water and shade nearby. In the northern latitudes that will be at higher elevations with north slopes or dark timber nearby.

Like ElkStalker said, elk scouting is not walking through the areas you have on your map. It is getting on a ridge that allows you to glass those areas at prime movement hours; the first and last hour of daylight. Maybe the first and last two hours in late August. You can do way more scouting with optics than with your feet. If possible, I try to find a glassing location that allows me to scout two or more spots on my map from one glassing point.

You do not have snow to provide you an open book of tracks that tell you what elk are there and what they are doing, so a big part will be actually observing them from afar. The bigger bulls will still be feeding in the same areas, though not in the tight groups they form as bachelor groups in November. Once they are out and feeding, they are easy to locate.

If you are hunting Nevada or Utah that opens their archery seasons in August, food remains high on the need list, but water is an undeniable fact of life in those dry climates. They will be within three to five miles of a water source. In MT, ID, WY, and many parts of CO, there is water in every drainage, so water is not a concentration need like it is in UT, NV, AZ, and NM. In the SW states, the best water and shade can come from canyons in the P-J country, not necessarily timbered slopes.

Read as much as you can about the food preferences elk have. All feed is not the same and bulls will be highly selective in their favorite food choices when early seasons place food as a highest priority. Elk are grazers and they like some grasses much more than others. Talking to range specialists in the area will tell you what the dominant grasses are and what places/elevations you will find them. To us, all basins might look that same. To elk, it is like a decision between old brown bananas or fresh chocolate brownies.

 

[CiK]

I genuinely appreciate everybody pitching in an providing advice. Preparing for this first hunt as become my second job. Getting out there from Indiana will be enough of a win for me, being able to here and see elk will be another. Harvesting one will be icing.

Thanks all!

 

[Tradewind]

Basically, what i'm saying is............once you have the areas picked out that you want to scout/hunt. Which means you think the area holds elk. You want to be very careful the elk don't see you if they're there. The best way to do that is to act like your hunting, and not just out for a woods walk.

Anytime you think elk can be in the area whether scouting or hunting. You need to be unseen, unheard, and unsmelled.

Unsmelled :hump: Been laughing about that all day

 

[slipinonem]

What region of Idaho are you looking at? Don't necessarily need the unit you are looking at, but a region will help us make some better recommendations.

 

[Muley_Stalker]

Unsmelled :hump: Been laughing about that all day

My new word for the day.

 

[Tradewind]

My new word for the day.

Sorta like having an unmutual agreement