Edward Abbey Approved?

[Deleted member 28227]

Not sure I agree on your second point. If the trails weren't there to begin with, would there still be as many visitors? I honestly don't know, but I would guess not.

If you build it, they will come...

12.4 million people visited ADK wilderness last year

Overuse in the Adirondack Park

Overuse is when the volume of and wear from use causes a location to sustain natural resource damage, and/or negatively impact the user’s experience or management objectives for that area.

www.adirondackcouncil.org

15.6 million hunting licenses were sold in the country.

This convo ain't about folks with rifles chasing chuckar in the frank church.

I think when this guy sees a wilderness sign he thinks...



reality

 

[MTGomer]

Cairns serve a purpose such as picking up where a seldom traveled FS pack trail enters the timber at the far end of the meadow.

From this thread and a few other things I’ve seen on social media like on the LeaveNoTrace Center’s page, a lot of people just like to stack rocks all over. I’ve never encountered that much but it must be a thing somewhere

 

[Irrelevant]

Conservationists Want You to Stop Building Rock Piles

Cairns have a long history and purpose, one that newer stacks sometimes subvert

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[Dougfirtree]

12.4 million people visited ADK wilderness last year

Overuse in the Adirondack Park

Overuse is when the volume of and wear from use causes a location to sustain natural resource damage, and/or negatively impact the user’s experience or management objectives for that area.

www.adirondackcouncil.org

15.6 million hunting licenses were sold in the country.

This convo ain't about folks with rifles chasing chuckar in the frank church.

I think when this guy sees a wilderness sign he thinks...
View attachment 158544


reality
View attachment 158545

Interesting stuff. The Adirondacks felt oppressively crowded this summer....until you stepped 10 feet off of a trail. 99% of the land is deserted, even on a weekend. Just these narrow ribbons of humanity criscrossing the landscape... Personally, I kick over the little cairns and leave the big ones. Does that just make me lazy?

 

[Trial153]

There are places were the building of them is totally over blown. No reason and eye sore. If there are places were they are needed and prudent then let the Appropriate Entity that built or maintains the trail build it. Otherwise leave shit alone.

 

[mplane72]

Most people have no idea what the purpose of a real cairn is or that such a thing actually exists. They're just building stupid little rock piles. They don't belong anywhere except in your yard if you like stupid little rock piles. I have always quietly knocked them over but my youngest saw me doing it this summer on a trip to Wisconsin. He gets them all now.

 

[Bigjay73]

Ya know, living in Colorado you see them a lot, but I've never seen them as an eyesore. Graffiti, trash, bags of poop, yes, but cairns never got my dander up. Kick em over and walla, no more cairn! Kinda harmless if you think about it, or am I missing something?

 

[406dn]

I voted who cares. It is impossible to not learn you are not the first human to get to any particular spot.

I far prefer to see a cairn than a crushed soda or beer can. It is likely that I've added to a few cairns over the years. I don't think I've ever started from scratch thou.

 

[kansasdad]

I can think of a higher than treeline trail in the western Bighorns where I wish a cairn would have shown me the way to the trail on the other side of the divide. On the other hand not having the trail once we made it to the stunted growth down below meant that we went meandering about looking for the trail and found a partially ice covered lake (in August!). Because we were there, I broke out the rod and land a couple of amazing brookies that were nothing like the stunted, over-crowded lake fish further downhill.

PS: @wllm1313 your reference to Edward Abbey caused me to do a little reading over lunch.

I am sad for him (he wouldn't be sad for himself, I'm sure) in his faithless living (relationship and theological) and envious of the time he spent in wilderness adventures. He certainly was outspoken in his beliefs regarding wild things and wild places.

 

[Jerky]

Kinda harmless if you think about it, or am I missing something?

I’ve thankfully followed cairns when there was no other way to see a trail. I’ve also followed cairns into a steep walled canyon in arches NP. Not everyone exploring the backcountry has a gps or good navigation skills.

Rocks also do serve as homes and nests for various critters. Playing with the rocks in a stream can lead to fewer fish in that stream. One kid doesn’t matter, but 500,000 wanna be instagram models do.

 

[DouglasR]

Aside from cairns, do you have an example of what isn't ok to do that isn't obvious? I didn't grow up in the west, but I can usually decide if something is ok with common sense.

Ok, to go back on what I said in post #9 for the most part when I go out west I’m surprised by all the freedoms you have.
It’s way better than Illinois.
Like a million times better.

Honestly I’ve just been feeling some major hate from this group of super progressive, free thinking, close-minded, radical left, ski industry people who it seems are always shit talking certain groups of people for not being as cool as them and doing things that annoy them and when I saw this guy’s IG post it reminded me of that and I got triggered.

From what I can see on this guy’s IG he looks like a descent dude tho

Ya know, living in Colorado you see them a lot, but I've never seen them as an eyesore. Graffiti, trash, bags of poop, yes, but cairns never got my dander up. Kick em over and walla, no more cairn! Kinda harmless if you think about it, or am I missing something?

Completely hypothetical, but I could see “cairning” taking off on Instagram and the area around the Peralta trail head going to Hell in a hurry.

 

[noharleyyet]

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​

An introduction to The Monkey Wrench Gang — Faculty/Staff Sites

Below is a brief snyopsis of the first five chapters of Edward Abbey's novel The Monkey Wrench Gang.

www.uwosh.edu

​

An introduction to The Monkey Wrench Gang​

— last modified Aug 14, 2010 01:38 PM
Below is a brief snyopsis of the first five chapters of Edward Abbey's novel The Monkey Wrench Gang.

The Monkey Wrench Gang is Abbey’s novel about four wilderness defenders who join together to attack those who are wrecking the wild. It is an exuberant, ribald, and humorous work, a wild ride into one type of response to environmental degradation. The novel helped spawn the Earth First! movement, and both the book and the movement are highly controversial. Just before he died, Abbey completed a sequel: Hayduke Lives!

Characters and the introductory chapters.
Chapter One introduces A. K. Sarvis, M.D., whose hobby is highway beautification – in the form of burning or chainsawing billboards. He is rather middle-aged and professor-like.
Chapter Two introduces George Washington Hayduke. He is a twenty-five year old former member of the U.S. Army Special Forces (Green Berets) who spent three years in Vietnam, the last one as a prisoner of the Vietcong. He returned home to find his beloved desert Southwest getting “developed.” Hayduke is gruff, burly, and impatient, a sexist, beer-guzzling gun-lover who is skilled in demolition. (His character is based on the real-life Doug Peacock.) In chapter 2 he returns to his hometown with a long-standing grudge at a local policeman. He steals his patrol car, parks it where a freight train takes it for a ride, and heads into the wilderness, “the heartland of his heart” (26).
Chapter Three introduces Seldom Seen Smith, on a “lifetime sabbatical from his [Mormon] religion” (29), but enough of a traditionalist to practice polygamy (without his wives knowing it). “Like Hayduke his heart was full of a healthy hatred” (31) at the degradation of the sacred lands of the Southwest. He worked as a professional guide on rivers and in the back-country. In chapter 3 he is at the infamous Lake Powell, thinking about how he can destroy the Glen Canyon Dam.
Chapter Four introduces Ms. Bonnie Abbzug, twenty-eight years old, who has a “loose and partial relationship” (41) with the much older Doc Sarvis. She appeared with him in chapter 1, and they are working together on highway beautification in this chapter as well. But they conclude that they “we’re meant for finer things” (49).

The “Wooden Shoe” Conspiracy (Chapter Five)
“Wooden shoe” is the root meaning of “sabotage,” a term that arose several centuries ago to indicate the willful destruction of the machinery and production capability of the Industrial Revolution that oppressed the workers and peasants. Chapter Five depicts our four characters (and two unidentified women from San Diego) in a trip down the rapids-churned Colorado River and into the Grand Canyon. At night by a fire, the three men talk about what is wrong with the world, and begin to think about doing sabotage against the forces that are destroying the wilderness and its wild rivers.

​

 

[44hunter45]

A hiker who has time to pile rocks is way more relaxed than me.

When I was young and foolish I made a lot of "Aspen Art" by tying and weaving young Aspens into geometric and animal shapes. It's been 45 years now. I need to go back up and see what they look like now. Not knowing if there is a statute of limitations on tree-weaving, I will not post where the alleged arboreal modifications took place.

 

[DouglasR]

​

​

An introduction to The Monkey Wrench Gang — Faculty/Staff Sites

Below is a brief snyopsis of the first five chapters of Edward Abbey's novel The Monkey Wrench Gang.

www.uwosh.edu

​

An introduction to The Monkey Wrench Gang​

— last modified Aug 14, 2010 01:38 PM
Below is a brief snyopsis of the first five chapters of Edward Abbey's novel The Monkey Wrench Gang.

The Monkey Wrench Gang is Abbey’s novel about four wilderness defenders who join together to attack those who are wrecking the wild. It is an exuberant, ribald, and humorous work, a wild ride into one type of response to environmental degradation. The novel helped spawn the Earth First! movement, and both the book and the movement are highly controversial. Just before he died, Abbey completed a sequel: Hayduke Lives!

Characters and the introductory chapters.
Chapter One introduces A. K. Sarvis, M.D., whose hobby is highway beautification – in the form of burning or chainsawing billboards. He is rather middle-aged and professor-like.
Chapter Two introduces George Washington Hayduke. He is a twenty-five year old former member of the U.S. Army Special Forces (Green Berets) who spent three years in Vietnam, the last one as a prisoner of the Vietcong. He returned home to find his beloved desert Southwest getting “developed.” Hayduke is gruff, burly, and impatient, a sexist, beer-guzzling gun-lover who is skilled in demolition. (His character is based on the real-life Doug Peacock.) In chapter 2 he returns to his hometown with a long-standing grudge at a local policeman. He steals his patrol car, parks it where a freight train takes it for a ride, and heads into the wilderness, “the heartland of his heart” (26).
Chapter Three introduces Seldom Seen Smith, on a “lifetime sabbatical from his [Mormon] religion” (29), but enough of a traditionalist to practice polygamy (without his wives knowing it). “Like Hayduke his heart was full of a healthy hatred” (31) at the degradation of the sacred lands of the Southwest. He worked as a professional guide on rivers and in the back-country. In chapter 3 he is at the infamous Lake Powell, thinking about how he can destroy the Glen Canyon Dam.
Chapter Four introduces Ms. Bonnie Abbzug, twenty-eight years old, who has a “loose and partial relationship” (41) with the much older Doc Sarvis. She appeared with him in chapter 1, and they are working together on highway beautification in this chapter as well. But they conclude that they “we’re meant for finer things” (49).

The “Wooden Shoe” Conspiracy (Chapter Five)
“Wooden shoe” is the root meaning of “sabotage,” a term that arose several centuries ago to indicate the willful destruction of the machinery and production capability of the Industrial Revolution that oppressed the workers and peasants. Chapter Five depicts our four characters (and two unidentified women from San Diego) in a trip down the rapids-churned Colorado River and into the Grand Canyon. At night by a fire, the three men talk about what is wrong with the world, and begin to think about doing sabotage against the forces that are destroying the wilderness and its wild rivers.

​

Prob should’ve researched Edward abbey before posting on here.
This sounds like a good book.
I just ordered it

 

[88man]

Oh I get it so Yvonne wants to make a new law that you need to stay on the trail at all times when in the wilderness or backcountry. Gotcha think about it. Hunting from a designated trail only. Its never gonna stop that search for the perfect utopia

 

[mtmiller]

I see a few of them in the Beartooths during my summer backpacking trips. IMO there isn't an overabundance. I haven't kicked any over, but wouldn't feel bad about doing it.

Prob should’ve researched Edward abbey before posting on here.
This sounds like a good book.
I just ordered it

Many years ago Jose' sent me a copy of The Monkey Wrench Gang. I forwarded on to someone else after reading. I might have to enjoy it again.

 

[noharleyyet]

I see a few of them in the Beartooths during my summer backpacking trips. IMO there isn't an overabundance. I haven't kicked any over, but wouldn't feel bad about doing it.



Many years ago Jose' sent me a copy of The Monkey Wrench Gang. I forwarded on to someone else after reading. I might have to enjoy it again.

The one and only Seldom Seen Cuervo?

 

[Nameless Range]

If they are a form of signage and exist within reason I guess I wouldn't have a problem with them. I've never been in a place and felt a ridiculous amount existed though. If I had been maybe I'd feel different.

When it comes to the trend of stacking rocks though, I feel different. I took my family to the Ross Creek Cedars a few years ago and someone had created like 20 little rock stacks in the creek bed. I went out and destroyed all of em. Some lady confronted me, and I diplomatically told her I didn't come here to see someone's "art".

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

I whitewater guided for years. I hate these things. Seems all Guides love building these things except me. I use to get a good laugh when we would be doing a trip and stop at a spot where some guide built one 2 days before and they look around like what the hell dude I wanted to show my clients my sweet cairn I built and I knocked that pile of pill popping ingenuity down while fishing on my off day. 100s of these things have met their demise from me.

 

[JEL]

Some dude or dudes stacks rocks all over in the scratchgravels where I hike and run. I mean I guess the guy just likes to pile up rocks. They are random. Not on trails always