Do you ever try to gently educate forky hunter friends or just let it be?

Mountain Man said:
I couldn’t agree more with your comment @WanderWoman. This shaming of people who decide to legally/ethically punch their tags on smaller bucks is getting annoying. They want all the control of selective harvesting on private land without investing a penny in their own property. They just expect everyone to selectively harvest on public land to appease their egos.
Click to expand...
Listen I am using this “anonymous forum” just to open a discussion. I have never once shamed anyone to their face or on a forum over what they shoot. This post was just to spur conversation. I shot countless Whitetail spikes and forkys in my youth back in Alabama and every one of them was a great hunt and fine for me. With no
Bamaboy16 said:
That’s the point of my post, I never have and due to my hate for confrontation I never will. I was just more so curious if any of yall had ever had that conversation before and how it went. I always keep my thoughts to myself, congratulate them hard and offer to pack meat regardless of the antler size of the animal. I’ve stated my preference here and have alluded to my friends, but I will never push that opinion on a friend, or even an anonymous stranger. You do you!
Click to expand...
the downside of “text” discussions is that it always gets me in trouble because there’s an inability to read tone, and I had a feeling it would but I let her fly anyways. Nobody else get in trouble with their wife over text when they can’t tell your tone?

Gentlemen and gentlegals, nowhere in my OP did I shame anybody. I volunteered to pack, gave my buddy a big hug and congratulated him like he was my own 4 year old son shooting his first deer when I helped him take out his forky last year.

I am not superior in anyway to any of you, I stink, hell my buck last year was just a decent 4 point but he aged at 6.5. That was probably by luck cause I thought he looked old in the face. I’m not shooting 200” deer here. I’m just stating my preference.

I thought I repeatedly stated I ain’t shaming. It’s just my opinion what I was posting about. I was more so curious in anyone that’s ever converted a young deer hunter into holding out for an older deer. But I guess I should just listen to my own intuition and let my buddy be. I never had plans on talking to him about it anyway, was just bouncing an idea off yall. I’ll continually help my buddy out regardless packing out meat and continue to be just as excited everytime he does!

I am sorry to any of yall that shot a meat deer this year for my tone if it came off as shaming, I really am. Yall do you I mean it, every success is awesome regardless! We are hunting them in their living room, it’s tough. I didn’t mean to come off the way I did.

I’m sure I’ll catch chit for this one going forward, get called “meat hater” or something every time I post lmao
 
Bamaboy16 said:
Listen I am using this “anonymous forum” just to open a discussion. I have never once shamed anyone to their face or on a forum over what they shoot. This post was just to spur conversation. I shot countless Whitetail spikes and forkys in my youth back in Alabama and every one of them was a great hunt and fine for me. With no

the downside of “text” discussions is that it always gets me in trouble because there’s an inability to read tone, and I had a feeling it would but I let her fly anyways. Nobody else get in trouble with their wife over text when they can’t tell your tone?

Gentlemen and gentlegals, nowhere in my OP did I shame anybody. I volunteered to pack, gave my buddy a big hug and congratulated him like he was my own 4 year old son shooting his first deer when I helped him take out his forky last year.

I am not superior in anyway to any of you, I stink, hell my buck last year was just a decent 4 point but he aged at 6.5. That was probably by luck cause I thought he looked old in the face. I’m not shooting 200” deer here. I’m just stating my preference.

I thought I repeatedly stated I ain’t shaming. It’s just my opinion what I was posting about. I was more so curious in anyone that’s ever converted a young deer hunter into holding out for an older deer. But I guess I should just listen to my own intuition and let my buddy be. I never had plans on talking to him about it anyway, was just bouncing an idea off yall. I’ll continually help my buddy out regardless packing out meat and continue to be just as excited everytime he does!

I am sorry to any of yall that shot a meat deer this year for my tone if it came off as shaming, I really am. Yall do you I mean it, every success is awesome regardless! We are hunting them in their living room, it’s tough. I didn’t mean to come off the way I did.

I’m sure I’ll catch chit for this one going forward, get called “meat hater” or something every time I post lmao
Click to expand...
To add just one comment on this regretful post. I’ve lived out west for 12 years now and been a long time lurker of this forum. I’m obviously not a big time poster but I read a ton throughout the year.

This forum is very influencing whether yall know it or not, I have probably gathered my opinion on shooting older deer based on the SE and E Montana deer threads I’ve seen over the years.

I’ve never hunted there, but every time I would read a thread about that area of the state the OP gets hammered with “enjoy your forky!” “Save some 1.5 year olds for the rest of us!”

That sinks in to a guy like me learning years ago, I took it as, “oh that’s definitely frowned upon out here in the West with Mule Deer. I need to shoot older ones every chance I get”

Yall post some amazing information and pictures, and for me, I look up to many posters for your hunting prowess. I guess I’m just saying that this forum is influential on many aspects.

I’ve never shamed anyone nor will I, but through the years I’ve came to a preference through experience. Just like each of you. To each their own, it’s all fine by me.
 
Bamaboy16 said:
To add just one comment on this regretful post. I’ve lived out west for 12 years now and been a long time lurker of this forum. I’m obviously not a big time poster but I read a ton throughout the year.

This forum is very influencing whether yall know it or not, I have probably gathered my opinion on shooting older deer based on the SE and E Montana deer threads I’ve seen over the years.

I’ve never hunted there, but every time I would read a thread about that area of the state the OP gets hammered with “enjoy your forky!” “Save some 1.5 year olds for the rest of us!”

That sinks in to a guy like me learning years ago, I took it as, “oh that’s definitely frowned upon out here in the West with Mule Deer. I need to shoot older ones every chance I get”

Yall post some amazing information and pictures, and for me, I look up to many posters for your hunting prowess. I guess I’m just saying that this forum is influential on many aspects.

I’ve never shamed anyone nor will I, but through the years I’ve came to a preference through experience. Just like each of you. To each their own, it’s all fine by me.
Click to expand...
Don’t let the forky “meat” hunters shame you for your question. It’s just internet opinions. They can pound sand. However just food for thought, if I’m on a hunt and being selective for an older age class deer will my odds be greater or lesser if everyone in the unit is also looking for a similar buck? Personally I want the other hunters to not be selective and take the first buck they see. Naturally older age class bucks are going to be a small portion of the population even in nonhunted populations due to natural mortality and predation. I think the thought that harvesting younger bucks is the cause for less older bucks is probably misguided. If you’re not seeing quality bucks that is a game management/manager issue and likely that too many bucks are being harvested or harvest is occurring when the bucks are most vulnerable such as the rut ie Montanas season structure.
 
WanderWoman said:
I think that most state agencies, not just MFWP, accept that there’s a lower/minimum threshold where buck numbers start to influence population dynamics. Respectfully, that’s not very weak. I would hazard a guess that a buck’s genetics not changing over time is pretty solid, too.

Most western state agencies outside of their “trophy management” or LE areas also shoot for 15-20 bucks:100 does post-season, with the understanding that on the lower end, younger age classes prevail. But, they deem it adequate for a healthy population. I feel like that is a pretty strong consensus from a lot of folks who know a lot about deer. Also don’t forget that at higher buck:doe ratios, fawn recruitment can start to decline if resources are limiting and bucks begin outcompeting fawns.

As far as giving mature bucks a better chance to breed, if someone passes up a forky to shoot an older buck, particularly before the rut (since there’s a desire to move hunting before the rut), then that mature buck sure ain’t going to be breeding any does then. If one puts forky hunters into a lesser or inexperienced category of hunter, then imagine those forky hunters bumbling around the woods for a longer period, contributing to increased hunting pressure, etc., when alternatively they can just shoot their forky and go home with some (hopefully) great memories and meat.

To answer your question, yeah antlers play a role in reproductive biology, and unless one is farming foodplot whitetail and talking about “management bucks” and “cull bucks” I don’t think we need to interfere with and manipulate that. A dominant buck will do his share of the breeding (assuming he wasn’t shot by a more selective hunter beforehand), and other bucks will do the rest. Back to the first sentence concerning threshold numbers/ratios, I’ve not seen or heard of evidence relating to population level impacts to mule deer as a result of buck age class/antler size. Bringing CWD into the picture, due to higher prevalence rates in older age class buck mule deer, more older bucks could have negative population impacts.
Click to expand...
I was specifically referring to your comment that benefits of an older age class are primarily socially driven. I have seen an email from MT FWP that states older age class males are unnecessary in MT deer populations. I think the science is far from settled on this point and ignores basic observed reproductive biology however this point if true does serve to support their season structure. Have you ever just asked yourself why no other state has a high powered rifle general season rut hunt like Montana?
 
rogerthat said:
I was specifically referring to your comment that benefits of an older age class are primarily socially driven. I have seen an email from MT FWP that states older age class males are unnecessary in MT deer populations. I think the science is far from settled on this point and ignores basic observed reproductive biology however this point if true does serve to support their season structure. Have you ever just asked yourself why no other state has a high powered rifle general season rut hunt like Montana?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. We may have to agree to disagree on this one; if every other state but MT thought age class was important they’d manage for older age classes, not just in their LE or trophy districts. Every paper or management plan I’ve seen for mule deer that discusses buck objectives speaks of a minimum ratio and then social aspects/hunter preferences leading to districts with higher buck:doe ratio objectives. Areas with higher b:d objectives are managed for hunt quality, not population management. Here’s a cool table for comparison, and no, it’s not lost on me that MT has the lowest threshold listed.


Yes, I’ve wondered why MT has such expansive rut hunting opportunity but then I remember they’ve done hunter preference surveys indicating a majority of R and NR hunters like the current timing of the season. If that survey was done to HT members I’m sure it would have come out differently… And I’ve read similar hunter surveys from other states that may not ask about rut hunting per se but ask about opportunity vs. trophy management and the bulk of those surveys have similar results to MT’s, so I can’t say we should just throw out those results. And now CWD will start to play a role in these decisions too, whether we like it or not.

In periods of good weather what we see out on the landscape is probably largely management-driven. But on the other hand, you can’t stockpile deer, either. Even the states with carefully-managed buck populations lost a $hit-load of deer during the severe winters 16-17, 22-23, etc.

I apologize @Bamaboy16 for derailing this thread and will stop before I devolve into more MT mule deer discussions. I’m glad that you still help and are happy for your friend regardless of his harvest and hope you’re not fearful of asking questions here again.
 
Bamaboy16 said:
But for those of yall with standards like mine, again it’s not about the antlers just about age, have yall ever sat down with your forky friend and tried to talk about it or just let them be forever?
Click to expand...
I just let them be forever. I don’t care how old an animal is when I shoot it and I don’t expect them to either.
 
Bamaboy16 said:
To add just one comment on this regretful post. I’ve lived out west for 12 years now and been a long time lurker of this forum. I’m obviously not a big time poster but I read a ton throughout the year.

This forum is very influencing whether yall know it or not, I have probably gathered my opinion on shooting older deer based on the SE and E Montana deer threads I’ve seen over the years.

I’ve never hunted there, but every time I would read a thread about that area of the state the OP gets hammered with “enjoy your forky!” “Save some 1.5 year olds for the rest of us!”

That sinks in to a guy like me learning years ago, I took it as, “oh that’s definitely frowned upon out here in the West with Mule Deer. I need to shoot older ones every chance I get”

Yall post some amazing information and pictures, and for me, I look up to many posters for your hunting prowess. I guess I’m just saying that this forum is influential on many aspects.

I’ve never shamed anyone nor will I, but through the years I’ve came to a preference through experience. Just like each of you. To each their own, it’s all fine by me.
Click to expand...
This is where I say (humbly & thankfully)….welcome to HT! 😂

With that said, I totally get what you are saying and hear the keyboard cowboys licking their lips to let you “know their opinion”. Let it ride and don’t take anything these jackwagons say to heart. I appreciated the question you presented and found it challenging to my perceived thought process on the subject.

Your answer isn’t in the answers posted by every Jw on here! It is in the thought process you’re challenging yourself with. Keep it up!👍🏼
 
Bamaboy16 said:
To add just one comment on this regretful post. I’ve lived out west for 12 years now and been a long time lurker of this forum. I’m obviously not a big time poster but I read a ton throughout the year.

This forum is very influencing whether yall know it or not, I have probably gathered my opinion on shooting older deer based on the SE and E Montana deer threads I’ve seen over the years.

I’ve never hunted there, but every time I would read a thread about that area of the state the OP gets hammered with “enjoy your forky!” “Save some 1.5 year olds for the rest of us!”

That sinks in to a guy like me learning years ago, I took it as, “oh that’s definitely frowned upon out here in the West with Mule Deer. I need to shoot older ones every chance I get”

Yall post some amazing information and pictures, and for me, I look up to many posters for your hunting prowess. I guess I’m just saying that this forum is influential on many aspects.

I’ve never shamed anyone nor will I, but through the years I’ve came to a preference through experience. Just like each of you. To each their own, it’s all fine by me.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity would you shoot this buck?
 

Attachments

  • 20141018_093805.jpeg
    20141018_093805.jpeg
    512.3 KB · Views: 26
WanderWoman said:
Thanks for the clarification. We may have to agree to disagree on this one; if every other state but MT thought age class was important they’d manage for older age classes, not just in their LE or trophy districts. Every paper or management plan I’ve seen for mule deer that discusses buck objectives speaks of a minimum ratio and then social aspects/hunter preferences leading to districts with higher buck:doe ratio objectives. Areas with higher b:d objectives are managed for hunt quality, not population management. Here’s a cool table for comparison, and no, it’s not lost on me that MT has the lowest threshold listed.


Yes, I’ve wondered why MT has such expansive rut hunting opportunity but then I remember they’ve done hunter preference surveys indicating a majority of R and NR hunters like the current timing of the season. If that survey was done to HT members I’m sure it would have come out differently… And I’ve read similar hunter surveys from other states that may not ask about rut hunting per se but ask about opportunity vs. trophy management and the bulk of those surveys have similar results to MT’s, so I can’t say we should just throw out those results. And now CWD will start to play a role in these decisions too, whether we like it or not.

In periods of good weather what we see out on the landscape is probably largely management-driven. But on the other hand, you can’t stockpile deer, either. Even the states with carefully-managed buck populations lost a $hit-load of deer during the severe winters 16-17, 22-23, etc.

I apologize @Bamaboy16 for derailing this thread and will stop before I devolve into more MT mule deer discussions. I’m glad that you still help and are happy for your friend regardless of his harvest and hope you’re not fearful of asking questions here again.
Click to expand...
It was my fault for derailing the thread. I will start a new one later this week as I believe there is a lot to unpack on this topic. Thanks for the great response
 
Bamaboy16 said:
Listen I am using this “anonymous forum” just to open a discussion. I have never once shamed anyone to their face or on a forum over what they shoot. This post was just to spur conversation. I shot countless Whitetail spikes and forkys in my youth back in Alabama and every one of them was a great hunt and fine for me. With no

the downside of “text” discussions is that it always gets me in trouble because there’s an inability to read tone, and I had a feeling it would but I let her fly anyways. Nobody else get in trouble with their wife over text when they can’t tell your tone?

Gentlemen and gentlegals, nowhere in my OP did I shame anybody. I volunteered to pack, gave my buddy a big hug and congratulated him like he was my own 4 year old son shooting his first deer when I helped him take out his forky last year.

I am not superior in anyway to any of you, I stink, hell my buck last year was just a decent 4 point but he aged at 6.5. That was probably by luck cause I thought he looked old in the face. I’m not shooting 200” deer here. I’m just stating my preference.

I thought I repeatedly stated I ain’t shaming. It’s just my opinion what I was posting about. I was more so curious in anyone that’s ever converted a young deer hunter into holding out for an older deer. But I guess I should just listen to my own intuition and let my buddy be. I never had plans on talking to him about it anyway, was just bouncing an idea off yall. I’ll continually help my buddy out regardless packing out meat and continue to be just as excited everytime he does!

I am sorry to any of yall that shot a meat deer this year for my tone if it came off as shaming, I really am. Yall do you I mean it, every success is awesome regardless! We are hunting them in their living room, it’s tough. I didn’t mean to come off the way I did.

I’m sure I’ll catch chit for this one going forward, get called “meat hater” or something every time I post lmao
Click to expand...

You posted on a controversial subject that has more than one camp. In your initial post you spoke of "your standards" implying that your standard is superior to that of your forky shooting friend. Later you said that when you help your forky shooting friend pack out his deer, you "keep your thoughts to yourself" So clearly those thoughts are not complimentary towards your friends choices. In doing so you put yourself in the "I only shoot mature bucks and hate those lowlife baby killers who shoot forkies" camp.

That's fine, you have plenty of good company in that camp. So, you should be defending your position not defending yourself for having expressed that opinion.

Just my opinion.
 
I let the kids and rookies slide and just get some experience and some meat.
On our farms, I don't like seeing small bucks (whitetail) get killed as that's our future inventory and they can be dandies in 3-5 years.

Having said that I took a first timer (50's something man) last year and he shot a forkhorn which he was thrilled with, got some meat, etc. Took him again this year and he whacked a little doe first day, then a spike buck second day. If he wants to go next year, we're going to have a discussion about letting those little bucks walk from here on out. He's got some experience now and needs to calm down, look them over, and not get in such a hurry to kill something. I'd like him to hold out for bucks with at least 8 points, rack wider than their ears. He can shoot does if he just wants meat, our state is generous with tags.
 
Last edited:
rogerthat said:
I’m a meat hunter. I usually shoot the first 180” muley I see too.

Fwp to me: thank you for your donation
Click to expand...
I think a lot of people associate a big rack with an old deer and that just isn’t the case. Which is more the point I was trying to make. I shot a buck couple year back when I got down to it I was disappointed in how young he was. He had decent enough hardware but had I realized he was that young I would have passed on him
 
cgasner1 said:
I think a lot of people associate a big rack with an old deer and that just isn’t the case. Which is more the point I was trying to make. I shot a buck couple year back when I got down to it I was disappointed in how young he was. He had decent enough hardware but had I realized he was that young I would have passed on him
Click to expand...
And somebody else would have shot him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Birddog916
The story of Limpy and this first time dad.
Replies
9
Views
679
duckhunt
duckhunt
WVmike
WV whitetail 2024
Replies
3
Views
233
Darkside
D
Kiwi
Youth Hunters Education
Replies
11
Views
349
Forkyfinder
Forkyfinder
CaptainChilders
Unit 60 Colorado help
Replies
0
Views
282
CaptainChilders
CaptainChilders
Little Big Man MT Chris
MT WT quest round 3
2
Replies
26
Views
2K
Little Big Man MT Chris
Little Big Man MT Chris

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
113,774
Messages
2,032,672
Members
36,326
Latest member
LVRock

Share this page

Back
Top