Do what you will with this

[westbranch]

If you want to see a lot of eagles go to NW IA in the winter when the rendering trucks haven't been by the hog barns in a while. Several years ago saw 200+ in one small. Probably double that in a day.

 

[BucksnDucks]

Maybe not the most accurate reporting, weird... Maybe blown out of proportion. I don't know. But, this issue is gaining steam regardless of your personal opinion or ammo preference. Copper monos have made huge strides in recent years. Why not switch? We all do a ton of other things in the name of conservation of our natural resources. Why not this? I've summoned my inner tree hugger.

I live in California and saw the first lead ban implemented in the "Condor Zone". Now it is statewide, for everything. I tried to pay attention to who was pushing hard on both sides of the argument.
I will agree with you the issue is gaining steam, regardless of "your" (I'll assume you mean a hunter) personal opinion. My problem is on the pro lead ban side I hear a lot of folks with nothing but personal opinions.
There is science behind lead toxicity, but I believe this has been tweaked and exaggerated by many. This article itself states something to the effect of "bald eagle populations are great.... and half the birds also have toxic lead levels."
Bald Eagle populations are expanding but Goldens are hurting. Does lead toxicity effect species differently? What about Vultures?
You can also compare Condor populations in Ca with other populations in Arizona with no lead ban.
I support healthy raptor populations but I'm skeptical a lead ban throughout the country will get us there. I'm also skeptical of many groups pushing for a lead ban.
I've got more questions than answers on this one.

 

[BucksnDucks]

I wouldn't lose much sleep if lead were banned for centerfire cartridges and shot shells. Creating an exception for muzzleloaders and black powder cartridges would have a negligible effect.

Estimating Lead Fragmentation from Ammunition for Muzzleloading and Black Powder Cartridge Rifles

Abstract. Lead bullet fragments pose a health risk to scavengers and hunters consuming game meat, but lead or lead-core bullets are still commonly employed for big and small game hunting. Bullet fragmentation has been assessed for modern, high-velocity rifles, but has not been well documented...

meridian.allenpress.com

Not rimfire?

 

[mtmuley]

Yeah. There ain't no eagles. Funny. mtmuley

 

[rwc101]

Not rimfire?

I guess people do leave a lot of dead prairie dogs and ground squirrels shot with lead for raptors to eat.

 

[mtmiller]

I have also read that birds aren't real but not sure if that is true

 

[mtmuley]

I have also read that birds aren't real but not sure if that is true

Can't shoot real birds with lead. Don't know if it's true. mtmuley

 

[Brian in Montana]

I generally don't like bans. There, I said it.

 

[Brian in Montana]

I entered a conversation of this sort about a year ago and it didn't go well. I'm sure eagles and buzzards and crows and raccoons and coyotes and humans and whatever else get some lead I them from hunters' bullets, but I just have a hard time getting from that to the point of believing I need to surrender my Accubonds. Sue me if you must.

 

[Don Fischer]

Once upon a time lead wasn't harmful. But then we dug it out of the ground and put it in paint and war on lead started. I imagine we will have to make it illegal to fish with worms next. They come out of the ground and likely bring lead with them. Then the fish and birds eat the worms and get lead poisoning! Then the bad guy's buy lead bullets and the people they shoot die of lead poisoning. Maybe we need a law that says you can't shoot people with lead bullets!

 

[nastynate]

Regardless of how many eagles you see in your area, I personally would not like to have any bycatch in my hunts. I want the one animal I shoot to die, and not another one a few days/weeks later because it ate some of my bullet fragments. The choice is easy for me.

 

[nastynate]

I live a couple miles from a place that is one of the most heavily hunted and recreational shooting areas I have ever seen. On a Friday, Saturday, or Sunday it's nothing to see 40-50 vehicles in the area. Shooting, fishing, or hunting. This area also has more eagles than I've ever seen. The last 6 mile canoe trip I took thru the area the wife and I counted 56 eagles bald and golden. I see anywhere from 15 to 20 eagles everytime I go down there which is multiple times a week. If these numbers were accurate one would think I'd stumble onto a sick eagle after 7 years.

So you haven't stumbled upon dead/sick eagles. But certainly you agree that some eagles must get sick and some must die, right? (Regardless of if it has to do with lead). Often sick, old, wounded animals etc. go into not-so-obvious places to recover/die. Not seeing a dead or sick animal of a certain species, even where healthy ones are common, is not evidence that animals are not dying/getting sick.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

So you haven't stumbled upon dead/sick eagles. But certainly you agree that some eagles must get sick and some must die, right? (Regardless of if it has to do with lead). Often sick, old, wounded animals etc. go into not-so-obvious places to recover/die. Not seeing a dead or sick animal of a certain species, even where healthy ones are common, is not evidence that animals are not dying/getting sick.

I agree with you on all that. I disagree with the %s of their study.

 

[nastynate]

I agree with you on all that. I disagree with the %s of their study.

Gotcha. The original study is pretty involved, and headlines often miss the point... not sure if you can see it in this link. The authors of the original paper estimate lead poisoning reduces the population growth rate of bald eagles 3.8% and golden eagles 0.8% (maybe not much of a decline in population growth, overall). I, personally, don't see any major issue with their study design or calculations.

Science | AAAS

www.science.org

 

[nastynate]

The dotted line on these graphs show "clinical poisoning" of lead. If you look at graph E, the spike in blood lead during fall and winter indicate to me that bullet fragments are likely a part of that spike.