CWD found on another elk ranch in CO

Oak

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CWD hits southern Colorado
Feb. 04, 2005

133_boo.jpg

Ron Walker gets a nudge and a kiss Thursday from
Boo at his Top Rail Ranch near Penrose. Walker
raised Boo, bottle-feeding the elk as a calf. He named
her Boo because of a boo-boo — a broken leg.

Penrose rancher’s herd could face slaughter by U.S. agency

By PAM ZUBECK THE GAZETTE

PENROSE - Ron Walker swung open a metal gate Thursday to visit his elk herd, which might have to be destroyed after a bull recently tested positive for chronic wasting disease.

Walker was looking for one special animal among the sea of 323 shaggy heads.

Soon, one popped up, trotted to his side, nuzzled his shirt and planted a juicy one on his face.

Walker hopes Boo, a 5-year-old cow he had bottle-fed for three months, can be spared from slaughter if he decides to sell his herd to the U.S. Department of Agriculture. The agency would kill the elk, then study them.

“It’s terrible,” he said. “I have 300-plus head of healthy elk here, and they quarantine me?”

He heard the bad news Monday from the Colorado Department of Agriculture: A 4-year-old bull recently bagged by a hunter at Walker’s 2,800-acre hunting ground near Cañon City had tested positive for CWD, which attacks animals’ brains and kills them.

It was the first of 250 elk killed from his hunting and ranching operation that tested positive since the state began mandatory testing in 1998. The discovery shows the disease has moved to southern Colorado.

Although there’s no evidence that chronic wasting disease is a risk to human health, the positive test means Walker will be forced to decide between destroying his herd or having it quarantined for five years. That means he would be barred from selling breeding stock, a crucial part of his business.

The infected bull represents the farthest south the disease has been found in a domestic elk herd in Colorado, said Linh Truong, a spokeswoman for the Colorado Department of Agriculture.

Walker’s is the third recent positive test in a domestic herd, she said.

A mule deer buck tested positive after it was bagged by a hunter Dec. 24 at Fort Carson north of Walker’s Top Rail Ranch, which is five miles east of Penrose.

A few years ago, about 10 ranchers allowed the government to buy their herds for slaughter and testing, Truong said.

“Right now, there’s not a definitive answer of how it spreads, how it originates,” she said.

“It’s definitely one of those things we can’t explain.”

Walker, in the elk business since 1996, said he’ll follow the rules but doesn’t think the government’s policies have done a thing to reveal how the disease spreads, or even whether it does.

“The more we think we know, the less we really know,” he said. “If they look here, they’re going to find it here. If they look in Kansas, Wisconsin, Indiana, South Dakota, they’ll find it there.

“Everybody says they don’t have it, but they do if they start looking,” he said.

Despite all the testing and publicity, the disease has not claimed large numbers of elk, which are overpopulated in several states, including Colorado.

Walker, who started hunting as a boy and bagged his first elk at age 19 near Grand Mesa, hasn’t decided whether he’ll let the government buy him out. At up to $3,000 per head, selling is a losing proposition, because he paid as much as $25,000 each for some of his breeding stock.

He will decide within the next few weeks but already anguishes about it.

“I raised a lot of these animals,” he said. “I’ve laid awake a lot of nights thinking about it. What do you do? It’s a state regulation.”

As for Boo?

Walker hopes to persuade authorities to let him keep her and two other favorites. “It’s not a good feeling,” he said. “I’ll fight for her, for all three of them.”
http://www.gazette.com/display.php?id=1305711
 
history

The history here, I've read, is that animals were treated in quarantine conditions, like a zoo. Only the healthy offspring of those were allowed out of the quarantine conditions. We have over 50 species here in these high fence places, since it started in the 30s. Lots are free ranging now too.

No CWD here yet. They did it different, in this state, from the get go.
 
CWD on a game farm? Weird, who would have guessed that one?

(Heavy sarcasm alert.)
 
tsk tsk.

Those mule deer in CO where they first discovered it, in the research facility, were from the wild, I read somewhere. They just found it in the research facility.

Why Oak? Shouldn't have done it. Sounds like a moral argument behind that should word. They shouldn't have done what part, save the Pere David deer? What shouldn't they have done? Why? If you got a reference, that's even better.

Who first said they shouldn't have done it and why did they say it? Was it Valerius Geist or others or who? Lets get back to the roots of this, in this year's discussion of it.
 
Tom, I think everyone here knows how everyone else feels about the issue. If not, they can go look at the discussion we had in the Elk forum last year. Actually, it's probably a good thing that Texas has turned out the way it has. That should satisfy anyone who's interested, so no other states have to be sacrificed. ;)

Oak
 
huh

Sacrificed? Lots of missing information there. How about the Spaniards?

Do you think the Spaniards should have never dropped off hogs here in the US? Is that one of the things that anyone can say should not have been done?

What do you mean, they should never have done it? What basis is there for a statement like that?

There's a lot to this, besides how we feel about it. The history would be a good discussion, if we could go through it all someday, in between our hunting. It would be neat to get the history of all this. Like, do you know or do you agree, with what I remember reading, the Co. facility had wild deer brought in for the diet research where they first discovered CWD?

It was wild deer that were brought into the research study, that were first discovered to have CWD. True or false? I guess I'm getting the question, have they figured out where CWD started yet, in the wild or not in the wild?
We know it was first discovered at that research facility, but it was with wild deer put in the study, as I understand it.
 
Yes, they were wild deer at the research facility, but they were in contact with sheep that had scrapie. One theory is that scrapie mutated to the CWD form. Who knows.

Hogs are a huge problem most places they occur. Yes, it's easy for me to say that they shouldn't have been let loose.
When you compile all that history, I'd be interested in reading it. ;)

Oak
 
Ok.

I was hoping you had the history book with it and would tell me where to read it. They might have got it from sheep, ok. It does not mean that we should not have had sheep, does it?

If the Spaniards didn't drop off hogs, then Columbus might not have discovered America. It might mean, we shouldn't be here. It should have been left to the Indians, America. It seems like that conclusion follows.

Hogs became a problem, but they were not a problem to start with, they were a help. By the way, I think they are a great problem to have, they are great to eat, they are great to hunt. What kind of problem are they?

People are a problem. To many of us, many would say. So what, we deal with, problems are to be solved. Like hunting hogs, its a great way to address the hog problem. True or false?

I don't know the arguments against exotics very well. I hear people say exotic plants and animals are not good, but I really don't know why they say that. Its kind of a hollow argument for me. Any insights for me there?
 
Great point Oak! I definitely agree that:

"it's probably a good thing that Texas has turned out the way it has. That should satisfy anyone who's interested, so no other states have to be sacrificed"

Just like Nevada has prositution. Anybody who desperatly needs a little lovin' can fly to Nevada. hump
 
WH, Maybe you haven't learned it yet, but there's a lot of differences between sex and hunting. I think Nevada is more like Washington than it is like Texas.

There's more hunters and fishermen in Texas than in any other state. You probably haven't learned that either.
 
Tom, of course there are differences between the two "sports," but I think you know the point I was trying to make is that in either one a person can buy a "trophy." However, most states have banned these things as the majority of the population feels both practices are unethical.

Ethical or not, CWD is a serious problem and game farms contribute to the spread of the disease. The best thing that could happen would be for them to be banned across the country, not just on a state by state basis.
 
huh, why?

It does not follow that banning them everywhere is the best thing to do from anything I have read. It is not the best thing to do, there is no reasonable argument I know of to support that bias. I'm willing to listen/read, if you want to give it. Why do you think that is the best thing?

Don't we treat diseases? Develope methods to prevent their spread? A double fence on this place in Co., wouldn't that be an option, besides banning them? They'll still spread the disease, ban it, take the fence down, then what, you spread it farther and into the wild. It seems like the ban would have bad consequences in that case.

How can Texas have these things, i.e. high fence ranches, with 50 different species for many decades, i.e. since the 30s, and we have no major disease spread problems from them like you claim? I told you how, they did it right here up at the top. Let that sink into your thoughts a little. You heard of any disease problems down here?

We prevent diseases. I guess in Wisconsin they are trying to kill off all the animals in the area. Co has some more tags for areas in the wild, I guess, how is that working? Is it preventing the spread in the wild?
 
Tom, I don't have all the answers. Actually I don't think I have any answers. All I have is my opinion on what I feel is right and what is wrong. I don't think it's right to domesticate elk, and you think it's perfectly acceptable. We've discussed this quite a few times on here and so far I don't think anybody has had their mind changed. So...I give up. You think what you want and I'll continue to think what I want. ;)
 
I don't like domesticating them, I like it better when they are treated well and kept pretty wild, but it does seem like some domesticate elk quite a bit and that they can be domesticated. They are grazers, like cattle, but there's about a million in the wild too, I guess.

Its pretty informative to me, that they've had high fence ranches in Texas since the 30s and don't have the disease problems described by some for some elk farms and ranches. Seeing it, the game ranching, work here for such a long time, for so many species, for so many people, really effects my feelings and thoughts. The animals are far from domestic.

How about this question? Suppose a wild bird hits your window and falls on its bent wing and gets hurt. If I go outside and help it get up, nurse it for a bit, and it gets well and flys off, I think its still a wild bird. Its not domesitcated, just because I helped care for it a bit. I think the ag.departments can treat wild animals like that, they are better at manageing animal diseases than wildlife departments are, maybe. I don't think the wild animals become domestic, just from a little management.

I see what you're saying though, some places have pretty domesticated elk, like that guy nuzzling noses with the elk, it looks pretty domesticated. I guess elk can be that way.

Whatever happened to falconry anyway? Ever tried to train a falcon and have it go back wild? Maybe that's why falconry is not popular anymore, you have to train them to much, make them not such a beautiful wild falcon.

I hope they solve this CWD problem before it gets to serious. Its been in sheep as scrapie forever though, at least a very long time, and that has not become a problem. Mad cow disease became a problem, elk are a lot like cattle, I guess that's what's got people spooked about CWD?
 
Tom,

I think one of the big things you dont think about is that lots of people in the West just have moral and ethical issues about domesticating wild animals, they also dont like hunting behind the wire...for the same reasons, mainly ethics. Frankly, a person doesnt need to justify why they dont like game farms, penned hunts, or the domestication of wildlife any more than that. Ethics are THE most important part of hunting for many, myself included.

I dont have a problem with the Texas hunting situation because I dont live there, and I can choose to not hunt there. Its a state issue, but at the same time, you shouldnt be too upset that Montana and its citizens have made the decisions to not allow game farms or hunting behind the wire. If you dont like the fact they banned game farms and dont like that they cant hunt game farms...dont go to Montana for a hunt.

The one thing I will disagree with you on is this: "I think the ag.departments can treat wild animals like that, they are better at manageing animal diseases than wildlife departments are, maybe. "

That would never hold water, it would not make any difference who was in charge of the wild herds in WY, MT, ID, etc., its just about impossible to treat wild animals for diseases. Further, turning over control of "wild" animals to the control of the Ag. Departments would be the demise of the wild herds. The Ag. Departments are headed up by landowners, who would look out for their interests above the hunters, above the wildlife, and above the wants of the PUBLIC. The only chance that hunters have to maintain viable and huntable herds of wild animals at a reasonable cost is to ensure that public lands and wildlife stay in the hands of the Game and Fish and the PEOPLE.
 
I have no problem with raising cattle and shooting them so I am far from judging what others do. I have a famous customer that showed me a photo of his big bull elk. It was about a 320. I showed him my 360 and he said he was going to kill one over 400 this year. He also said it was being kept for him at a ranch so if I am to pass a judgement it is on what constitutes a trophy. As far as disease the government will be all over that one as it should.
 
ok.

Public land management and private property management can be different Buzz. I don't want them to be the same, its not one or the other, its both. I've seen high fences in Wyoming to protect the animals, I've seen landowners paid per animal, I think, for public hunters taking an animal. Its similar here, except there the state government is the middle man.

Its very difficult to mange disease in the wild, I agree with that statement you made. I'm glad for the management practices down here, they seem to be very successful to me and a lot of others.

That doesn't mean they apply everywhere. At what point do you think they will decide to just start shooting those diseased wild animals out in the wild so they stop spreading disease? It may come to that, the way it looks like a lot of western people reason. Give out a few more tags is not cutting it, the disease is spreading, isn't it? That's what I'm beginning to wonder about, when will they decide to slaughter the wild animals.
 

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