Custom turrets?

[Jamen]

Hello everyone, with yet again a disappointed no mule deer tag fall I did not buy the rifle I wanted for it. This being my 8th year applying for the ND muley I am pretty confident me and my old man will draw! fingers crossed. Anyway back to the topic at hand I am going to buy a 300 win mag either a savage or rem 700 still not sure which one. I have researched a ton of optics and I think I am going to settle on the Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 the price I found it at is pretty good and a bit under budget. I saw Vortex offers I believe through a second source custom load turrets. You enter all your information caliber bullet brand grain etc and they make you a turret for yardage. Has anyone ever used custom load turrets before? If so did they hold true to the distance they said? I am not opposed to doing it the old fashion way and using the MOA ones on it. For the $200 a pop I feel it could just be a waste of time and money to buy them. I think once the gun is zeroed in and I have the correct muzzle velocity I should be able to make a excel spreadsheet with all the date (yardage, elevation, temp, wind) put that into excel and should spit out the MOA I will need. (that along with hours in the field shooting) I am new to the longer range game and excited to learn more about it. I am confident with my old 30-06 with a 3x9 leaupy at 500 but I would like to stretch my ability a bit farther with 100% confidence. So if anyone has input on the custom turrets I am all ears or for any other opinions on longer range shooting equipment or what ever I am all ears. More knowledge the better.

Thanks Jamen

 

[jryoung]

$200 seems way over priced, you already have the MOA turret just use that. I built a spreadsheet and tapped it to the side of my rifle that has drop as far as I'm willing to shoot as well as windage at 10-20-30mph.

That said, I have experience with the Leupold CDS, which is free (for the first turret) and it has held true for my one load that was developed.

 

[roadhunter]

http://kentonindustries.com/category/custom-turrets

 

[Jamen]

That's what I thought when I saw the price too. I feel if they did hold true maybe worth it but at a lower price. I am good with math and spreadsheets so I don't think 200 is worth it especially if they are not spot on then I have to do all the calculations anyway in the end. I just wanted to see what everyone thought about them. Thanks for the input!

 

[BuzzH]

Sounds like you're just starting out.

I would strongly encourage that you not trust "spit out spreadsheets" and custom turrets as the gospel, in particular at extended ranges. Also, tracking on individual scopes, can vary a bit, which also become apparent at longer range.

IMO/E, I wouldn't go with a custom turret, specific to a particular load. Nothing in the way of flexibility it you decide to change something up. I would use moa/mils and never look back. You can fine tune your drop charts via shooting to confirm. You also have lots of flexibility with zero ranges, load changes, bullet weights, changing your scope to a different rifle, etc. when you use moa/mils.

Whatever you do, make sure to confirm, via a lot of range time, that your drop charts, turret, etc. are doing what they "should" be doing.

I think there are a lot of hunters that rely on things being right without doing their due diligence to make sure.

My 2 cents.

 

[Jamen]

I agree 100% I'm not expecting my spread sheets to be spot on, every situation is different. It will give me a starting point and maybe reduce the amount of lead down range to get where the math and sheets would get me. I plan on going out a lot this summer and early fall even if I do not draw my muley tag. I would use the sheets as a starting point and adjust as I need to. I do know people who rely on those sheets and custom knobs more than their own skills. You can plug numbers into a computer all day but if you don't practice you may be eating tag soup come winter time.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Sounds like you're just starting out.

I would strongly encourage that you not trust "spit out spreadsheets" and custom turrets as the gospel, in particular at extended ranges. Also, tracking on individual scopes, can vary a bit, which also become apparent at longer range.

IMO/E, I wouldn't go with a custom turret, specific to a particular load. Nothing in the way of flexibility it you decide to change something up. I would use moa/mils and never look back. You can fine tune your drop charts via shooting to confirm. You also have lots of flexibility with zero ranges, load changes, bullet weights, changing your scope to a different rifle, etc. when you use moa/mils.

Whatever you do, make sure to confirm, via a lot of range time, that your drop charts, turret, etc. are doing what they "should" be doing.

I think there are a lot of hunters that rely on things being right without doing their due diligence to make sure.

My 2 cents.

+1
I prefer mil/mil but it's a matter of taste.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

Sounds like you're just starting out.

I would strongly encourage that you not trust "spit out spreadsheets" and custom turrets as the gospel, in particular at extended ranges. Also, tracking on individual scopes, can vary a bit, which also become apparent at longer range.

IMO/E, I wouldn't go with a custom turret, specific to a particular load. Nothing in the way of flexibility it you decide to change something up. I would use moa/mils and never look back. You can fine tune your drop charts via shooting to confirm. You also have lots of flexibility with zero ranges, load changes, bullet weights, changing your scope to a different rifle, etc. when you use moa/mils.

Whatever you do, make sure to confirm, via a lot of range time, that your drop charts, turret, etc. are doing what they "should" be doing.

I think there are a lot of hunters that rely on things being right without doing their due diligence to make sure.

My 2 cents.

This is Extremely good advice!!! Don't ever shoot at an animal with dope you haven't confirmed on the range.

IMO, custom turrets are for 0-400 yds. You need more precision than they offer with the distances you are talking about, and if you haven't bought the rifle yet, you are probably running out of time to gain the profficiency you need before hunting season. Buy a wind meter.

 

[Jamen]

I have a kestrel already I keep in my pack, I am not planning on being a 1,200 yd shooter come November. But I feel I will be able to put 200-500 if not more rounds down range this early summer til November. I wont be an expert by then but I feel with that much practice and planning I will better than the avg. joe.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

I have a kestrel already I keep in my pack, I am not planning on being a 1,200 yd shooter come November. But I feel I will be able to put 200-500 if not more rounds down range this early summer til November. I wont be an expert by then but I feel with that much practice and planning I will better than the avg. joe.

Sounds like you have the right perspective. You goal should be ethically taking the animal, and only you are going to know at what range you can do it. You need a strong ethical compass. Good luck.

 

[cowboy]

You have been given some good advise above. Keep in mind that with even a proven load with the very same rifle/scope/ammo combination you'll have vertical difference with drastic temp/elevation/barametric pressure change etc.

You might want to take a look at a custom turret label. I have helped a number of guys that have ordered these. You can have whatever info you want put onto it. You go to their web site and develop your own turret tape, put it on your existing turret and if things change you just peel the turret tape off. You may have some slight adhesive remaining on your turret but from my experience a little rubbing alcohol on a cleaning patch and your turret is back to it's original condition. In fact I have helped 2 different guys with Vortex scopes gather their data that are using this custom tape system. I believe the cost is something like 25 bucks and you get 3 or 4 identical tapes in case you screw up as well as having a spare or 2.

Keep in mind that you can make your own turret tape also for just pennies. I have a couple that are at least 5-6 yrs old and still going strong. I use self adhesive computer labels that are used for addressing envelopes, cut them to size, put them on your existing turret, mark them up with a waterproof felt tip, cover with a cut piece of clear packing tape and off you go.

customturretsystems.com/

Good luck - a turret is as accurate as the CONFIRMED DATA that was used to develop it.

 

[Jamen]

Thanks for all the advice. I am not one to just shoot and hope to hit something I get really upset when I am out hunting shoot a bird and cannot find it with my dogs. I will spend a huge amount of time searching for it. I do try to take the best ethical shot every time I shoot. If I can get closer to animal I will. Out in the badlands not so easy and after this will be 8 years for waiting (hoping I get my tag) I do not want to let a 600 yard shot be the difference in filling my tag or not. I have passed up on animals that I did not feel comfortable at shooting at in the past. I am not the type of person to just shoot first and find the results later. I appreciate all the advice

Jamen

 

[1_pointer]

I'll second what Buzz, Snowy, and MH stated. My other suggestion is that to consider a bit smaller magnification scope. IME magnification much over 12-14 isn't really all that helpful from field positions.

More FWIW, a scope change could make your current 30-06 into one heck of a LR rifle with the right bullets.

 

[Jamen]

Yes I have thought about just putting a better scope on my 06 but the set up I have right now on it am so comfortable shooting it at anything 300 yards running standing doesn't matter I would hate to just throw that level of comfort away. I understand I can get that with a new scope but if I ever decide to whitetail hunt again its the perfect set up and this gives me an excuse to buy a new gun!

 

[MKotur325]

Jamen,

This coming from someone with a fair amount of experience shooting targets at longer ranges (out to 1200yds). A few things I can add to the conversation. $200 is Seriously not worth it for custom turrets.

If you can get out in the badlands this summer. Shoot in the area you think you might hunt. Shoot uphill and downhill angles and everything you think you might have to try to be successful, and practice at time and a half to double the ranges you would like to be able to comfortably hunt at.

As was mentioned before, 24x is more optic than you need for hunting out to 500-600yds. My precision rifle wears a Nightofrce 3.5-15x50 and 15x was sufficient magnification for me to hit 12" plates out to 1200yds. More magnification isn't always a good thing for hunting. Extra magnification shows more shake, more mirage, parallax and it's just flat longer to get set up behind. Were I in your shoes, I'd be looking for something with top magnification between 14-18xish. You might want to consider the PST in the 4-16x50. It's shorter, lighter, has a wider FOV, and also has an additional 10 MOA of adjustment range; with the same glass and options. Another to look at would be a Nightforce SHV 4-14x. It will be better glass and better construction than the Vortex, plus it has more adjustment range for a very similar price.

One other thing to consider is the long term desires for this rifle. You mentioned that for now, you would like to get comfortable shooting to 500yds and wanting to stretch your abilities. One thing that may be worth considering, with that 6-24 you only have 65 MOA total adjustment range. With many sub $1500 optics, it's not advisable to use the top and bottom 10% of the adjustment range, it can cause issues with the optic loosing zero and in some cases it will add windage along with elevation with the way the springs sit on the lenses. I would not advise using the top and bottom 10% with any vortex other than the razors (they have upgraded internals...). This means that you have 52 MOA usable, and IF the rifle zero's at the mechanical midpoint of the optic, that leaves you with 26 MOA for adjustment (which is unlikely, and extremely difficult to predict). Depending on your situation and your demands on the rifle, that may or may not be enough. Depending on the bullet and the load that should be somewhere between 950 and 1050yds, maybe 1100 if you get lucky. I bring this up, solely because it may be worth considering, if you want to be able to push the rifle beyond that for targets or your long term goals, it may be worth looking at something that has more adjustment range. The 4-16 PST has 75MOA total adjustment, and the Nightforce SHV has 100MOA total adjustment. Depending on what you are looking for the rifle to do, one of these may be worth considering.

Just a thought... Also, If you have a smartphone, there are several good ballistic solvers available that will also allow you to customize your drop charts to your known data. These can be super helpful helping to predict wind, atmospheric changes and spin drift.

 

[Southwind]

First off you can buy a custom from Kenton for $69 for your scope. Secondly go to Vortex website you will see an icon LRBC, this is a ballistic calculator. I have used this format for many many loads and it is accurate.

I do have a custom turret on one rifle but really don't see the need for it although it works very.

I have a HSLR and I just print out a little ballistic chart I laminate, set the turret to zero and then go off clicks to my distance. I can count the clicks better than I can see the turret anyway. Works well for me, you can do the same with your pst at no cost to you and see if you like it before you spend any money.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

As was mentioned before, 24x is more optic than you need for hunting out to 500-600yds. My precision rifle wears a Nightofrce 3.5-15x50 and 15x was sufficient magnification for me to hit 12" plates out to 1200yds. More magnification isn't always a good thing for hunting. Extra magnification shows more shake, more mirage, parallax and it's just flat longer to get set up behind. Were I in your shoes, I'd be looking for something with top magnification between 14-18xish. You might want to consider the PST in the 4-16x50. It's shorter, lighter, has a wider FOV, and also has an additional 10 MOA of adjustment range; with the same glass and options. Another to look at would be a Nightforce SHV 4-14x. It will be better glass and better construction than the Vortex, plus it has more adjustment range for a very similar price.

Not to mention that going a little lower in top end magnification will give you a lower bottom setting which can be useful if you find yourself taking a little shorter shot, or creeping through some timber.

You have to figure that after you sink all of this effort into shooting further the hunting goods are going to pop the deer up at 75yds opening morning

 

[MtnWest]

Lots of good advice. My .02 mimic Mkotur and others, I prefer the 14-16x top end for out to 1k+ as long as the reticle subtension (crosshair thickness) is in line. The lower power gives more scope travel, a low bottom end and at 15x you can still quarter a .5 moa target (split a 5-6" target @ 1k for example)

Regarding shooting distance, consistent first shot hits are easy (with practice) to say 700-800 but in that next 200 yards most cartridges drop twice as much and discrepancies in BC, velocity spreads and environmental conditions really show their ugly heads. Note a bullets BC is not constant and changes with velocity and twist so the manufactures #'s are a nice starting point. Sierra, Berger, Lapua are generally very close, Noslers #'s are a crap shoot. Sierra even gives BC's at a given velocity on their site. To 5-600 a bullet doesn't drop much so using the given BC is generally ok.

A tape is fine if you want to shoot to say 600yds and you stay within a 3k foot band of what the tapes elevation (barometric pressure) was made for (temperature matters as well so shoot for avg during a hunt). Before ordering a tape/turret shoot often and out to the max distance you want so you know for a fact at your elevation and with your load how many minutes/mils it takes to get there and that your scope tracks well.

If you are going to hunt close to the same elevation/temp as you practice, as mentioned wrapping a label around and marking it is the fail safe way to go. For sure don't spend $200 on one. I would do a tape before a custom turret. I make mine on a laser jet with avery labels then clear tape to waterproof before cutting. I do cad design so it is easy to print my own. I make them to have moa and yardage so if I'm outside the elevation/temp band I can dial moa using my phone app. I try to shoot as far as I can in the off season as a hobby and hunt with a bow as close as I can in the fall.

All that said, calculating drops is easy, the wind is what we should practice in as much as possible. Good luck.

 

[MKotur325]

All that said, calculating drops is easy, the wind is what we should practice in as much as possible. Good luck.

This could not be more true. Learning to judge wind can make the difference between making you look like an expert and making you look like a complete fool.....

Wind at the barrel is important, wind at the target is important, wind everywhere in between is important.

It's also important to remember, especially in cross canyon shooting, that wind at the bullet's elevation is important, as well as up drafts and down drafts. A couple years back I watched a very competent long range shooter miss 6 shots at a Big black bear in MT because we forgot to compensate for the updraft, and they sent all 6 shots over the bear.

If you can get out and take a precision rifle course, they are well worth the money. Especially if you have the blessed opportunity to shoot in a stiff wind with a spotter who knows how to judge wind. I've shot two precision rifle courses and they really helped speed up the learning process for me.

It's also a good idea when you are out shooting, be it at the range or in the field, to shoot with a spotter. If nothing else, a quality spotter can help you get back on target after a miss so that you can focus on form and trigger squeeze and less on trying to call hits and misses yourself. They can also provide real time updates on wind speed and direction, because they simply aren't constant...

 

[Southwind]

Wind at the barrel is important, wind at the target is important, wind everywhere in between is important.
.

I have been on the firing line at matches on 600 yard range when the firing line, mid and target flags were all going different directions and you really had to watch the mirage carefully to determine where to hold.

I think it's good to read all the material you can on reading the wind but nothing is better than just plain old experience.