Crossbows and trapping, again

[Wildabeest]

@daltrix99 hit the nail on the head. Definitely not elitist - just the reality of we shouldn't make it but so easy. If that dissuades some people away from hunting, then so be it. If you make it too easy, then you diminish the experience and the respect for the animal's life. If they don't want to work for it, let them go spend big $money$ on live animal target practice in high fence private preserves.

 

[Bowhuntrben]

Perhaps only traditional archery should be allowed during OTC archery seasons. Based on the arguments that I'm seeing, it seems major concerns people have with crossbows is that they make it too easy and that it will bring more people into the woods. Compound bows do the same thing when compared with traditional archery. If OTC was limited to traditional archery only, there would be significantly fewer hunters in the woods. I say if that's the card you want to play against crossbows, then the same judgement should be used against modern compound bows.

 

[Buffs35]

I'd be okay with crossbows in archery season across the board if i get to use one during wolf and grizz season.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I'd be okay with crossbows in archery season across the board if i get to use one during wolf and grizz season.

'Sorry, no grizz season ... yet. However, in Montana crossbows are allowed as weapons during the general hunting seasons of most, if not all, species, including wolf. Also, crossbows are allowed in some Weapons Restricted Areas even during the Archery Only season.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

Phone possessed

 

[VAspeedgoat]

Accidental post

 

[daltrix99]

Perhaps only traditional archery should be allowed during OTC archery seasons. Based on the arguments that I'm seeing, it seems major concerns people have with crossbows is that they make it too easy and that it will bring more people into the woods. Compound bows do the same thing when compared with traditional archery. If OTC was limited to traditional archery only, there would be significantly fewer hunters in the woods. I say if that's the card you want to play against crossbows, then the same judgement should be used against modern compound bows.

I used the word threshold in my post, and while we cannot know for sure, there obviously is a certain amount of pressure, fair chase, and successful harvest rate that both hunters and biologists deem acceptable when it comes to bowhunting elk here in Montana. Clearly this is not a consensus, but in my opinion it is a responsible majority.

It's ok to use logic that allows for increased harvest odds (i.e. compound bows) up to a certain extent, and disallows progression. Nuance is important here. Your logic would fall apart when applied to any number of other examples - like the speed limit. We have to be comfortable regulating gray areas and agreeing on when enough is enough.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

If someone chooses a crossbow, so what? It's their choice. And yes, the more the merrier. Whether YOU believe it will make it "too easy" is irrelevant. Compound bows have an advantage over stickbows. I head to the field each year with my stickbow, with friends who shoot compounds and friends who shoot crossbows. I've never encountered anyone giving consideration to it. The debate over equipment choice and hunting methods has ONLY weakened the hunting collective. Efforts are more productive when directed toward preserving rights, protecting lands and strengthening our heritage. Division among the ranks creates wedges for anti-hunting and animal rights activists to gain ground. Slippery slope. At least that's how I feel.

This year I applied for tags in AK, CO, MT, WY, UT, VT, NH, MA, and ME.

Each state has different rules regarding method of take, no two states have the same rules.

Archery season in CO starts Sept 2 and goes to the 30th, in Mass it's Oct 19 - Nov 28. PA has a muzzy season and a flintlock season. MA you can only hunt deer with shotguns but bears with rifles

Crossbows are a legal method of take in CO, if you want to hunt an elk with a crossbow you can buy an OTC tag and go this year. This conversation has absolutely nothing to do with slippery slope wedge issues/protecting peoples rights, whatever.

This thread is all about a small group of hunters being frustrated with the dates they get to hunt using a specific weapon.

 

[Mike Tomano]

This year I applied for tags in AK, CO, MT, WY, UT, VT, NH, MA, and ME.

Each state has different rules regarding method of take, no two states have the same rules.

Archery season in CO starts Sept 2 and goes to the 30th, in Mass it's Oct 19 - Nov 28. PA has a muzzy season and a flintlock season. MA you can only hunt deer with shotguns but bears with rifles

Crossbows are a legal method of take in CO, if you want to hunt an elk with a crossbow you can buy an OTC tag and go this year. This conversation has absolutely nothing to do with slippery slope wedge issues/protecting peoples rights, whatever.

This thread is all about a small group of hunters being frustrated with the dates they get to hunt using a specific weapon.

Gotcha.

 

[Huntnut60]

Just noticed the revival of this earlier thread. 60yrs old and have bowhunted all or part of the last 40yrs. Have had the good fortune to have harvested multiple species with a bow. Several years ago had some shoulder problems, along with hand and wrist, and have been too scared to try and draw a bow even at reduced weight. Bought a crossbow to hunt hogs in Central Texas and maybe shoot an occasional doe. I can tell you with several years experience with a crossbow, the only thing it has in common with traditional/modern archery is a short arrow/broadhead combination. It takes almost no skill and very little practice to consistently hit a softball at 40yds. I am almost certain I could hit an elk in the vitals from 100yds with 1 hr of shooting and no practice, after I have a scope dialed in. I have enough Colorado elk pts to get an archery Unit61 elk tag and I have never considered using a crossbow for that hunt even if it was an option. Just doesn't seem right. Also, not sure I would want to carry that awkward shaped weapon up and down that unit. Don't even want to talk about modern archery equipment and how that has evolved into a long range "sport".

 

[Shangobango]

I am on the record of being in favor of crossbows for youth, the elderly, and those with a medical condition only. It seems Colorado has a somewhat special set of circumstances. The thought of making them legal in the OTC archery elk seasons doesn't seem right but I'm no expert.

I just want to state the fact, and it is a fact, that even with the near top of the line crossbow that I own, the idea of 100 yard plus shots at elk with a crossbow being a slam dunk is a little ridiculous. The trajectory and speed of the projectile when shooting at that distance is akin to someone taking 700 yard shots with a .308. Doable, absolutely, but by any Joe Blow who shoots for an hour and then hits the woods, not so much.

Put someone in thick cover and that even further complicates things. The trajectory of even a top of the line crossbow starts looking a lot like a rainbow at 100 yards and is taking close to a second to get to the target.

The main advantage of the crossbow is the 50 yard and in range. No need to draw and accurate, especially with a good sight. Makes it great for beginners.

The big con of the crossbow is that they are cumbersome. Without using a solid rest, I would say they are no more accurate to the average shooter than a compound bow is once you get past 50 yards due to all of the weight being on the front of the bow. They are not easy to hold on target freehanded at longer ranges. Most everyone I know that hunts with one uses them out of a stand or a blind with a shooting rail or rest of some kind for that very reason and there are very few people that I know that are taking shots of more than 40 yards with them due to the thickness of the cover in most places around here.

Being told I had to take a freehanded 75 yard shot and make it or die, and I had the choice between my Matthews compound and my Ten Point crossbow , I'd pick my Matthews with no hesitation. Give me the option of using a rest for the crossbow and I would pick the crossbow.

Don't even get me started on carrying the confounded thing, especially in thick cover. I have one of the narrowest axle to axle length crossbows on the market and it makes for pure misery to wade through thickets with it even with a good sling.

 

[Huntnut60]

I am on the record of being in favor of crossbows for youth, the elderly, and those with a medical condition only. It seems Colorado has a somewhat special set of circumstances. The thought of making them legal in the OTC archery elk seasons doesn't seem right but I'm no expert.

I just want to state the fact, and it is a fact, that even with the near top of the line crossbow that I own, the idea of 100 yard plus shots at elk with a crossbow being a slam dunk is a little ridiculous. The trajectory and speed of the projectile when shooting at that distance is akin to someone taking 700 yard shots with a .308. Doable, absolutely, but by any Joe Blow who shoots for an hour and then hits the woods, not so much.

Put someone in thick cover and that even further complicates things. The trajectory of even a top of the line crossbow starts looking a lot like a rainbow at 100 yards and is taking close to a second to get to the target.

The main advantage of the crossbow is the 50 yard and in range. No need to draw and accurate, especially with a good sight. Makes it great for beginners.

The big con of the crossbow is that they are cumbersome. Without using a solid rest, I would say they are no more accurate to the average shooter than a compound bow is once you get past 50 yards due to all of the weight being on the front of the bow. They are not easy to hold on target freehanded at longer ranges. Most everyone I know that hunts with one uses them out of a stand or a blind with a shooting rail or rest of some kind for that very reason and there are very few people that I know that are taking shots of more than 40 yards with them due to the thickness of the cover in most places around here.

Being told I had to take a freehanded 75 yard shot and make it or die, and I had the choice between my Matthews compound and my Ten Point crossbow , I'd pick my Matthews with no hesitation. Give me the option of using a rest for the crossbow and I would pick the crossbow.

Don't even get me started on carrying the confounded thing, especially in thick cover. I have one of the narrowest axle to axle length crossbows on the market and it makes for pure misery to wade through thickets with it even with a good sling.

100% agree with everything you said. Maybe I was just trying ( poorly) to distinguish the difference between crossbows and archery.

 

[Drewd]

I am on the record of being in favor of crossbows for youth, the elderly, and those with a medical condition only. It seems Colorado has a somewhat special set of circumstances. The thought of making them legal in the OTC archery elk seasons doesn't seem right but I'm no expert.

I just want to state the fact, and it is a fact, that even with the near top of the line crossbow that I own, the idea of 100 yard plus shots at elk with a crossbow being a slam dunk is a little ridiculous. The trajectory and speed of the projectile when shooting at that distance is akin to someone taking 700 yard shots with a .308. Doable, absolutely, but by any Joe Blow who shoots for an hour and then hits the woods, not so much.

Put someone in thick cover and that even further complicates things. The trajectory of even a top of the line crossbow starts looking a lot like a rainbow at 100 yards and is taking close to a second to get to the target.

The main advantage of the crossbow is the 50 yard and in range. No need to draw and accurate, especially with a good sight. Makes it great for beginners.

The big con of the crossbow is that they are cumbersome. Without using a solid rest, I would say they are no more accurate to the average shooter than a compound bow is once you get past 50 yards due to all of the weight being on the front of the bow. They are not easy to hold on target freehanded at longer ranges. Most everyone I know that hunts with one uses them out of a stand or a blind with a shooting rail or rest of some kind for that very reason and there are very few people that I know that are taking shots of more than 40 yards with them due to the thickness of the cover in most places around here.

Being told I had to take a freehanded 75 yard shot and make it or die, and I had the choice between my Matthews compound and my Ten Point crossbow , I'd pick my Matthews with no hesitation. Give me the option of using a rest for the crossbow and I would pick the crossbow.

Don't even get me started on carrying the confounded thing, especially in thick cover. I have one of the narrowest axle to axle length crossbows on the market and it makes for pure misery to wade through thickets with it even with a good sling.

I agree. I had to go to a crossbow last year due to injury. With a rest they shoot great but without one I much prefer to use my Matthews (if I could). I went with the Mission Sub-1 and it is great but it is not a slam dunk in the woods!