CPW director on leave after complaint of racist comment
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MarvB
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Idiot!
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
How does anyone in 2022 act surprised that referring to Black Americans in "the back of the bus" is hurtful? The Rosa Parks story is one of the most enuring moments of the civil rights movement. SMH.
lpcoutdoors
Active member
I'm often torn on events like these. On one hand, the director's comment was completely inappropriate and could bring up very painful thoughts and emotions for a person. On the other hand, it benefits anyone in any situation to give "generous assumption" as its been called to a person's harmful actions, such as in this case a very poorly mis-spoken way of saying thank you to a person who was behind the scenes and out of the limelight.
On the other other hand, or maybe back to the first hand, or maybe between the hands, anyway, I think about how the Bible, whether a literal God ordained guide or at least a well rooted cultural mythology, calls on leaders to be "blameless." While blameless doesn't mean perfect and it will always be subjective and elusive, it does hold leaders to a higher standard and both assessment and consequences. And if a leader falls on the wrong side of a thing, it might not mean they are evil or something, but it might mean they have to let go or be let go of some leadership. I don't know if that's warranted here or not.
But I'm saying all of this because its an example, I want hunters and anglers and our leaders and influencers and all of us to be the best of people. I believe hunting and angling help us be great people and I believe the world sure needs more great people. Being a great person includes these kinds of socio-political issues that are sure confusing, to me anyway, and scary, but also sure chances to learn and try to understand and keep becoming more careful, well I really would rather say, full of care.
I don't know, just rambling about some thoughts and feelings on this thing and these kinds of things.
On the other other hand, or maybe back to the first hand, or maybe between the hands, anyway, I think about how the Bible, whether a literal God ordained guide or at least a well rooted cultural mythology, calls on leaders to be "blameless." While blameless doesn't mean perfect and it will always be subjective and elusive, it does hold leaders to a higher standard and both assessment and consequences. And if a leader falls on the wrong side of a thing, it might not mean they are evil or something, but it might mean they have to let go or be let go of some leadership. I don't know if that's warranted here or not.
But I'm saying all of this because its an example, I want hunters and anglers and our leaders and influencers and all of us to be the best of people. I believe hunting and angling help us be great people and I believe the world sure needs more great people. Being a great person includes these kinds of socio-political issues that are sure confusing, to me anyway, and scary, but also sure chances to learn and try to understand and keep becoming more careful, well I really would rather say, full of care.
I don't know, just rambling about some thoughts and feelings on this thing and these kinds of things.
lpcoutdoors
Active member
Thats a great point and as soon as I read it I have to admit though that when I heard back of the bus I pictured a little boy Forrest Gump type person, shy, going to the back of the bus to be unseen. I know I've sure said some pretty obviously dumb things to other people without any awareness of their potential hurt, my mind being stuck on some different meaning. But I also sure have to take responsibility for what comes out of my mouth and do my best to account for it, so....
yikes.
odd that shane mahoney got dragged into that for being a racist too.
prenzlow effed up, whether he meant it the way he did or not, and i highly doubt he did. unfortunately he will probably be shown the door, and that's probably what needs to happen because trust is broken.
i do think the accusations of racism often go too far in situations like these, even when what somebody said was racist.
odd that shane mahoney got dragged into that for being a racist too.
prenzlow effed up, whether he meant it the way he did or not, and i highly doubt he did. unfortunately he will probably be shown the door, and that's probably what needs to happen because trust is broken.
i do think the accusations of racism often go too far in situations like these, even when what somebody said was racist.
Gerald Martin
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This is my thought. Prenzlow makes a racist comment and she demands that Gates also be removed because he said “n” and because he invited Shane Mahoney as a keynote speaker and Shane Mahoney voiced admiration for Teddy Roosevelt and downplayed the contributions of native Americans and POC in American history????
Wow.
Outrage over “back of the bus”, I understand and agree.
Outrage over Gates using “n”, I understand and agree.
Shane Mahoney a racist???? I’ve never picked up on the slightest hint. In fact on Randy’s recent podcasts he makes multiple references to the tragic and shameful history of how indigenous people and POC were treated during the European colonization of North America while personally affirming how wrong that was.
Where does the word “nuance” fit into this accusation? Teddy Roosevelts attitudes about POC were racist and certainly unacceptable today, but so were Abraham Lincoln’s.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Growing up in ND in the 70s/80s, "off the reservation" was a common phrase for folks going too far or not behaving the way they were supposed to. I thought nothing about it and oddly never really made the Native American connection in my mind (#clueless). In my first job out of grad school (I was 25) I used the term in a meeting. I was kindly told after the meeting not to use the phrase again given its connection to the Native American reservation system and the treatment of Native Americans. I have not used it since, but I do use the story with young leaders about being mindful of how they communicate. Sounds like this fellow is well past his first job, so if he hasn't learned yet, time for him to move out of leadership.
Also, in my experience, if you invest in trying to understand and engage the concerns of the underrepresented community(ies) in your workplace, they will give you grace for minor un-intentional misinformed slips - I have definitely been the beneficiary of a generous understanding of my missteps along the way and I believe it comes from goodwill earned over the years. But if you have been indifferent, or there are plenty of stories working their way around the office about hurtful behavior of a leader, this type of public gaffe will be pushed hard - as it should be.
D
Deleted member 28227
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Circle the wagons, too many chiefs not enough Indians, sending smoke signals, give me a call later and we can have a pow wow on the issue, my spirit animal, Indian giver, Indian summer, they're on the war path, rain dance, low man on the totem pole...
I imagine there are probably hundreds of problematic euphemism out there that, I definitely don't think folks should be fired solely based on using popular expressions... especially if they've never been corrected before. Though we all should work on removing these from our speech patterns.
Now, should Prenzlow apologize absolutely.
It is also an expression similar to "at the cool kids table" or something along those lines. The cool kids hang out in the back of the bus....
^ That's the first thing that comes up on urban dictionary if you google the expression.
I can definitely see it as problematic and hurtful and also that Prenzlow would honestly not realized he had said something hurtful.
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that came to my mind too.
and honestly, it's gotta be what he was going for.
go listen to We Rode in Trucks by Luke Bryan
There's a lot about life we learned on the bus,
How to lie, how to fight, how to kiss, how to cuss
The closer we sat to the back, the smarter we got
doesn't excuse it. he should know better. especially, extremely especially, when the person you're referring to is african american.
Wind Gypsy
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Seems like a pretty reasonable complaint but adding Shane Mahoney to the "racist list" makes me wonder if we're not dealing with perpetual victims that can only be satisfied when surrounded by the wokest of activists.
Jorgy
Well-known member
as a dumb white guy who is absolutely trying to be the best person he can be and treat everyone well, I can absolutely see myself saying this infront of a group of people and have 0% chance of it being racist. In fact, I have said it with groups of people who are hiding out at back of a room when I'm talking.
Hearing from her perspective, I can understand why that was a trigger for her, and I have been told recently (On TV) that it's not a POC responsibilty to teach you why things are racist. But crap, do we have to go right to "you are fired" instead of pulling someone aside and explaing the situation instead of someone being publicly shamed and having thier job threatened?
Hearing from her perspective, I can understand why that was a trigger for her, and I have been told recently (On TV) that it's not a POC responsibilty to teach you why things are racist. But crap, do we have to go right to "you are fired" instead of pulling someone aside and explaing the situation instead of someone being publicly shamed and having thier job threatened?
DouglasR
Well-known member
“our manager’s crazy he always smokes dust! He’s got his own room at the back of the bus!”
-beastie boys
Is more of where my mind goes when I hear a back of the bus reference.
The way it’s described in the story it seems like that’s more of what he was going for
RobG
Well-known member
The director messed up, and appears to have acknowledged it. I'm not sure when whistleblowing went from protection against retaliation for exposing a wrong, to protection for actively trying to get your boss fired, which under normal circumstances is insubordination.
@Nameless Range recently linked to a podcast that talked about how our culture has evolved to one of instant revenge for the slightest mistake.
@Nameless Range recently linked to a podcast that talked about how our culture has evolved to one of instant revenge for the slightest mistake.
DouglasR
Well-known member
“Sitting with the cool kids in the back of the bus”
Not only trying to get your boss fired, but also reforming the entire CPW staff. Seems a little severe, based on the "facts" of the story.
“The pattern was obvious, white men were not a fan of having me at this conference, let alone running it,” she wrote.
She said Monday, “I think that we should re-evaluate and look into reforming the entire CPW staff, honestly. We should look at who we’re hiring more in-depth for these positions of power. My goal is to bring about a change that’s long overdue and something that does more good than harm, not just at CPW, but it needs to be good for all these communities of color that have been impacted, too.”
Mallardsx2
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The black guy who is pouring my cement for my garage called me a "serial killer cracker" when he saw all of my animal mounts in the house. I took it as a compliment. We both got a good chuckle out of it. Hes good people. Takes more than name calling to hurt my feelings. If I even have any...lol
Not so sure I would tell the guy to sit in the back of the bus. He's a *formidable opponent. lol
Not so sure I would tell the guy to sit in the back of the bus. He's a *formidable opponent. lol
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The comment isn’t great, to me the reaction and everything since might be worse; especially calling for reforming the entire agency. I’m sure the partnership coordinator position is vitally important to in the field work for wildlife…
I have to ask, what format do you prefer?
DouglasR
Well-known member
I didn’t realize we were talking about lieutenant colonel William Kilgore of the 1st airborne Calvary.
I saw what he did in nam, I retract my defense
I saw what he did in nam, I retract my defense
