Competition grows to auction off coveted hunting tags

[Pucky Freak]

If one puts this in the context of the Public Trust Doctrine, one of the operating principles of appointed/elected officials, it's a pretty easy answer - The Trustee should award the use of an asset that is part of Trust Corpus to the group or individual who can obtain the greatest return the Trust, all within the sideboards of what is legally allowed.

I understand there is a lot more that enters these discussions than just the Public Trust responsibilities of the Trustee. Not that I am a Commissioner or Trustee, but if I were, I would ask for legal clarification of who are qualified by statute, then select the organization deemed most likely to obtain the greatest return for the Tag/Trust Corpus.

The Trustee is being asked, in this case, legally mandated, to part with Trust Corpus represented by this statewide tag. Trustees' fiduciary duties require obtaining the greatest return on any Trust Corpus being allocated away from the Trust.

I'm sure I'd get flamed by some groups for approaching it that way. But, if we are going down this path by statute, then the Trustees have guidance under the PTD of how they should decide.

It will be I interesting to see how the BHA raffle shakes out. If it’s administered well the total $$ *could* exceed what might have been raised via auction, potentially paving the way for future raffles > auctions based on the trust doctrine principle you referenced.

 

[Pucky Freak]

As I understand, both auction and raffle involve the 90/10, correct? Your comment relates to a tag for the wealthy vs a tag for all interested to participate... the wealthy do not have a guaranteed tag via raffle thus more pro raffle vs auction?


Both raise the $. It seems, or at least it appears auctions raise the most $ for FWP.

WTF DU is given a big game tag where they pocket 10% of auction or raffle to use towards wetland is beyond me, maybe because wetland is inclusive of moose? Therefore some justification?

Obviously the wealthy have a greater shot at the raffle tag b/c they can buy more tickets, but in the end anyone with a single ticket had a chance, so there’s no surefire way to buy your way to the top. W/ an auction the vast # of persons interested in the tag have a 0% chance at it, which just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Raffles have their problems too. I’ve seen a rigged raffle before, and I know others have too, like DU rewarding the highest donors.

I once attended a small fundraising event in a small IA town for local 401(c)’s. After watching the raffle table for part of the afternoon I wagered that not a lot of entries were being made so my girlfriend and I each bought $50 worth of tickets - we ended up with like 7 of the 12 prizes

 

[Carnage2011]

Why can't FWP auction them directly?

They can’t even successfully draw a tag let alone try and sell one!

 

[BigHornRam]

They can’t even successfully draw a tag let alone try and sell one!

That was just for ewe tags and a couple moose. They won't screw up the governors tags. Honest!

 

[Eric Albus]

Who should get to decide then?

Me

 

[Bambistew]

MT is giving out the same number of sheep tags this year as they did when W$F was first founded. Thats "conservation" at work! All sheep tags should be auctioned off, it will be for conservation, maybe then we'll see better results!

Auction tags are a joke and unbelievable how many people are duped into believing they are helping. Where are the results?

Growing game populations by artificial means, aka guzzlers, in areas that didn't support wildlife is truly sad. Put animals where they can be sustainable without husbandry.

The gloves were supposed to come off when Gray took the helm, or so he said. They came off alright... Hard to shoot sheep with them on. My understanding is he had never hunted sheep before and managed to kill a bunch since he took his gloves off for "conservation."

All these projects and money spent and nothing to really show for it. 45 years since FNWS/WSF was founded, and what is there to show for it? A handful more tags on some states less in others. Has it really changed much in the last 20 years?

I would argue that we could cast all auction tags aside and we'd see no better or worse outcome and you wouldn't ostracize a large(?) part of the population.

I don't give a shit of people have money or not. Make the game fair, and end the welfare BS. Stop buying the more money makes you more deserving of wildlife held in trust for everyone. Want more money for wildlife charge $20 more for applications. Not hard to offset an action tag and the department will save 10%... Anyone ever figured out how much money is spent in Reno for the backpack circle jerks vs money raised for conservation? Id bet the money spent on travel, food and drinks is 2x what they make for conservation. Just think if all those hard core conservationists would just donate their travel budget, we'd have mountains full of sheep.

 

[Treeshark]

Hell yeah dude, nailed it. It’s about time someone called it out.

 

[Irrelevant]

MT is giving out the same number of sheep tags this year as they did when W$F was first founded. Thats "conservation" at work! All sheep tags should be auctioned off, it will be for conservation, maybe then we'll see better results!

Auction tags are a joke and unbelievable how many people are duped into believing they are helping. Where are the results?

Growing game populations by artificial means, aka guzzlers, in areas that didn't support wildlife is truly sad. Put animals where they can be sustainable without husbandry.

The gloves were supposed to come off when Gray took the helm, or so he said. They came off alright... Hard to shoot sheep with them on. My understanding is he had never hunted sheep before and managed to kill a bunch since he took his gloves off for "conservation."

All these projects and money spent and nothing to really show for it. 45 years since FNWS/WSF was founded, and what is there to show for it? A handful more tags on some states less in others. Has it really changed much in the last 20 years?

I would argue that we could cast all auction tags aside and we'd see no better or worse outcome and you wouldn't ostracize a large(?) part of the population.

I don't give a shit of people have money or not. Make the game fair, and end the welfare BS. Stop buying the more money makes you more deserving of wildlife held in trust for everyone. Want more money for wildlife charge $20 more for applications. Not hard to offset an action tag and the department will save 10%... Anyone ever figured out how much money is spent in Reno for the backpack circle jerks vs money raised for conservation? Id bet the money spent on travel, food and drinks is 2x what they make for conservation. Just think if all those hard core conservationists would just donate their travel budget, we'd have mountains full of sheep.

I wish I could publish that as an Op-Ed in every hunting mag in north america.

 

[Trial153]

MT is giving out the same number of sheep tags this year as they did when W$F was first founded. Thats "conservation" at work! All sheep tags should be auctioned off, it will be for conservation, maybe then we'll see better results!

Auction tags are a joke and unbelievable how many people are duped into believing they are helping. Where are the results?

Growing game populations by artificial means, aka guzzlers, in areas that didn't support wildlife is truly sad. Put animals where they can be sustainable without husbandry.

The gloves were supposed to come off when Gray took the helm, or so he said. They came off alright... Hard to shoot sheep with them on. My understanding is he had never hunted sheep before and managed to kill a bunch since he took his gloves off for "conservation."

All these projects and money spent and nothing to really show for it. 45 years since FNWS/WSF was founded, and what is there to show for it? A handful more tags on some states less in others. Has it really changed much in the last 20 years?

I would argue that we could cast all auction tags aside and we'd see no better or worse outcome and you wouldn't ostracize a large(?) part of the population.

I don't give a shit of people have money or not. Make the game fair, and end the welfare BS. Stop buying the more money makes you more deserving of wildlife held in trust for everyone. Want more money for wildlife charge $20 more for applications. Not hard to offset an action tag and the department will save 10%... Anyone ever figured out how much money is spent in Reno for the backpack circle jerks vs money raised for conservation? Id bet the money spent on travel, food and drinks is 2x what they make for conservation. Just think if all those hard core conservationists would just donate their travel budget, we'd have mountains full of sheep.

Uck yeah.

 

[SAJ-99]

Auction tags are a joke and unbelievable how many people are duped into believing they are helping. Where are the results?

I’m not sure that is fair. There have been quite a few reintroductions in mountain ranges in MT. There are collaring programs to see how herds interact with each other and domestic sheep, and collars aren’t cheap. I’m not sure if the “return on investment” is good or bad, or even if there is a better way. But most of the complaint sounds like supply demand problems with tags which isn’t going to be fixed ever.

 

[Wildabeest]

And isn't Utah in love with run by SFW?

FIFY

 

[Unlucky]

Hell, sell all of the tags. Well obviously we would have to have game damage hunts for cow elk for the poor ranchers still. But at least mule deer does would catch a break.

 

[Hunting Wife]

This is a great question. Whether it is an auction or a raffle, seems we could skip the middle man.

With the way agencies already get accused of being money-hungry, prioritizing revenue above management, etc., this would be an incredibly bad idea. I see no upside for the agency in auctioning tags directly.

I also agree with @Bambistew in that the funds raised on most of these tags do not move the needle on conservation nearly as much as folks like to claim. I find that argument to justify the continuation of auction tags to be misleading at best. Switching them all to raffle rather than auction would be a more democratic mode of allocation without any meaningful difference in overall impact to conservation IMO.

 

[nastynate]

All these projects and money spent and nothing to really show for it. 45 years since FNWS/WSF was founded, and what is there to show for it? A handful more tags on some states less in others. Has it really changed much in the last 20 years?

In no way should you consider this a disagreement with your statement. I know next to nothing about WSF and sheep conservation generally, and I suspect you're spot on.

My question is, with wildlife everywhere getting crunched by a lot of different means, is keeping sheep numbers stable (not that they have been) a conservation success? What is a reasonable metric for success for a group like this? How do we fairly measure it? Pheasants Forever certainly helps pheasant and other grassland bird populations, but pheasant hunting today is much worse than it was in the 90s.

 

[Sytes]

I also agree with @Bambistew in that the funds raised on most of these tags do not move the needle on conservation nearly as much as folks like to claim. I find that argument to justify the continuation of auction tags to be misleading at best.

Not disputing the raffle (for all) vs Auction (for the rich) argument though I do not follow the idea Auction $ is any different from raffle $ in relation to "...funds raised on most of these tags do not move the needle on conservation nearly as much as folks like to claim... justify the continuation of auction tags to be misleading at best."

IMO, it is misleading to allege there is a false justification to continue Auction tags under the above premise. 90% regardless auction or raffle.

"By law, 90 percent or more of the proceeds from each auction tag must go to conserve that particular species. The auctioning conservation group gets to keep 10 percent, but even that must be used for auction expenses and advertising, says Whitney. "

Is the FWP not telling the truth regarding auction tags generate 90%. That there is a difference in % from auction vs raffle?

 

[Oak]

Revenue doesn’t have an impact on conservation like changes in policy would. But spending money makes us feel like we’re doing something in the face of inertia on policy changes that would really move the needle.

 

[Big Fin]

Revenue doesn’t have an impact on conservation like changes in policy would. But spending money makes us feel like we’re doing something in the face of inertia on policy changes that would really move the needle.

Signature worthy.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Have all y'all bought your super tag chances yet?

 

[Trial153]

Let’s not forget that if just Auctioning off the tags aren’t alienating enough to the average sportsman. be sure to add additional befits above and beyond getting the tag. Like state wide access, no seasonal weapons restrictions, extended or 365 day seasons…… what else can we add on to add insult to injury?

 

[Treeshark]

what else can we add on to add insult to injury?

Shoot like 10 times, say stupid things like “we knew this was gonna get Western!” and then put it on YouTube?