Common theme

I got all the answers I need right here....!!

Shawn Halls' admission of guilt and conviction for trespassing and lying to FWP on his Super Tag hunt 2008; where he killed a 190" ram; (as is currently printed in two dozen newspapers).

As well as it being confirmed, Shawn Hall was on Bowsite registered under ST08 (Super Tag 2008) and posted several times "that Jon Lewton was in fact with him on this very hunt, not two weeks after the infamous sting-operation."

The similarities of this poachers' admission to the events surrounding his' illegal hunt and Lewton's highly publicized sting are too close to ignore.....regardless of what an uninformed jury has decided.

I've included some "direct quotes" for you to read "from Shawn Hall" off Bowsite in 2009:

From: ST08 Date: 07-Aug-09

I see that there has been very little activity concerning the 204 ram from the breaks in 2008 for quite some time. I would have to strongly agree that what transpired around the harvesting of this ram was a huge shame. Lewton told me numerous times throughout my hunt that he wished he would have saved that ram for me because of how appreciative I was and just my basic character, not to mention being a lifetime resident of MT. Lewton helped me with my Super Tag hunt a week and a half later and as soon as i checked my ram in havre they were all over me as well. I have nothing more than assumptions put on me, not for lack of trying though, but it still is a matter of what happened throughout the 2008 680 sheep season. Ever hear about how the governors tg holder got his ram or how the nonresident hunter got his? trust me. It would make your stomach turn knowing those details and comparing them to what is going on with Lewton. I agree with a vast majority of you, FWP didnt go about this the right way. For the rest, such as "mn archer", know your facts before you trash tlk somebody. You couldve drawn a tag next year, and Lewton probably would have helped you out, for free. Not now. Live and learn.


From: ST08 Date: 08-Aug-09

Thats the whole thing that disturbs me about what is going on with the "Lewton case". The guy is a sheep nut and just loves being there to help people out. It has become very obvious that many land owners in the breaks dont care for him. I do know this for a fact. My brother hunted a property in the breaks area for mulies and upland last year. I wont say the land owners name but it was mentioned that there is a huge dislike for Lewton in the area because he knows where sheep are on public ground and helps hunters out free of charge. This is taking money out of the pockets of the land owners that could be leasing out their property for hunting rights to any that would pay the fee. He also praised Lewton by stating that "he can judge a ram within an inch or two on the hoof". And he can. I have seen it. Very impressive. So is this a matter of land owners pushing FWP? Vice versa? Makes one wonder. Either way, where has ethical hunting gone? To the deep pockets in my opinion. What a shame

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This Shawn Hall guy of course, is no longer posting ANYTHING on any forum because of it.
I love how he says: "Lewton wished he'd have saved that 204 for him" like Lewton owned the ram; that was inaccessable without trespassing?

How's THAT for a fantastic case of irony..........Think about it folks, had the sting not taken place the week and a half prior to Shawn Hall's hunt - your Montana 204 would have been killed by a trespasser anyway, with Jon Lewton guiding him???

Place suitable expletive of your choice here _____________?!

When he goes on to 'rip the landowners in the area for having it out for Lewton' is where it gets bad for all of us; as in fact it appears they rightly should have all along. Hence the investigation, then Lewton trespassing while guiding the FWP-sting operation, and two weeks later guided Mr. Shawn Hall to a 190" ram.

It'll be VERY interesting to see how this next court date he has goes on May 3rd, and whether 'a now more informed hunting public' will continue to support someone whose been stealing game from them for 20 years?

Moe
 
What upsets me is that Shawn Hall is going to get to keep his ram. Sure he lost a couple years worth of applications and cant apply for a few years...oh, and those huge fines...what a joke.

There just wasnt a lesson learned...other than trespass to kill the biggest sheep you can find. The only thing you'll get is a slap on the wrist.

Taking the ram away would send a clear message.
 
Moe and Miller:

Thanks for the work and the posts. You have put together the final pieces to confirm what I had been told by landowners familiar with the case.

Too bad FWP botched the sting operation as they did, as I think their would be a lot more outcry against multiple intentional trespassing charges if the parties involved were not getting the sympathy vote as a result of the sting operation going the way it had.

A lot of the good country up there is closing to public hunting, that previously allowed public hunting, either for sheep, or otherwise, as a result of all this trespassing. Landowners have just flat out got tired of this crap.

And when the trespassing is done by people who are glorified in magazines, who flaunt this trespassing activity, and make themselves out as the hunting gods, these landowners get sick of it a lot quicker than if it was some guy who accidentally found himself in the wrong place, apologized for his mistake, and quickly got off the property.

So looks like the average Joe is gonna take it on the chin again, due to some people who think they are above the law and who disregard the common decency of getting permission to hunt. Even worse is that they were denied the permission to hunt, and went and did it anyhow.

I will want to know the outcome of this May 3rd court date.

Thanks for the post Moe.


Buzz - Does he really get to keep the ram he took illegally? If so, that is a joke of the highest degree. The slap on the wrist crap isn't going to cut it when people are shooting 200" rams. And then they get to keep it, WTH?

I suspect if I went to the big ranch sounth of my house, where some cable tycoon has a bunch of wonderful bulls running around, and I shot one of those 380" bulls, then drove in on my ATV to haul it out, I wouldn't get to keep it. And I would expect to do some time in the pen, lose my rifle, my ATV, and my hunting privleges for a long, long time, which would be proper treatment if I did something that stupid, on purpose.
 
Does anyone else find it odd that a few guys on this forum have put the pieces together, in a matter of days following this new development; yet the local MT media has not?

Doesn't anyone else find it odd there was no mention of Lewton in the Hall story:confused:?

Remember these same media outlets I'm refering too published an anonomous post off Bowsite by someone calling himself "Justice" without doing any fact-checking (which has since been debunked); yet cant seem to get it straight that Lewton was in on the same hunt Mr. Hall was?

How have they missed this info for two years now?
...............
In full disclosure- and speaking for myself only here- I aint the brightest bulb on any Christmas tree and there's plenty of proof of that on outdoor forums:rolleyes:.

So I sit here and wonder why the cover-up? There has to be a cover-up. The media is supposed to inform the public not hide things. If they're doing it to protect the case against Lewton, they're doing a crap job of it; because he got off on one charge already. Not to mention the public perception of the case has been debated for 2 years; why didn't the media get to the bottom of this already and report it?

One also wonders whether or not this Lewton/Hall connection was presented at the first trial and/or will it be privy to the jury at the next....?

There's some big questions there; anyone know the answers?

Moe
 
Moe said:
Does anyone else find it odd that a few guys on this forum have put the pieces together, in a matter of days following this new development; yet the local MT media has not?
Click to expand...

Yes and No.

Yes, odd that no one else can see the obvious.

No, in that with the exception of me, the guys on this site are some of the smartest and best-informed hunters I know. And they usually know a lot more about what is going on than what they let out.

Moe said:
Doesn't anyone else find it odd there was no mention of Lewton in the Hall story:confused:?
Click to expand...

Now that is the very interesting part, especially if the information I have received from landowners is correct. Still wondering how that was left out of the Hall case, if the many sources placing him there are correct.

Or, the landowners I know, who are honest as the day is long, have jerked my chain.

Or, who ever worked up the Hall article did not do much research. Or his research led to different conclusions than what I have been told.

I hope some truth comes out in the trail on May 3rd that really sheds light on this. I trust my sources completely, but it sure seems strange to me that mention of this case in the press did not finger all the people involved. Maybe my sources are wrong, but I doubt it.
 
Guys like this is why landowners are hesitant with allowing others to use their land. It only gets a min. to get permission. If this guys walks what's to stop others from doing the same thing? I saw a nice bull on private I couldn't get permission to hunt on, maybe I should take him next year, get the same lawyer and judge. Lie a little, hell I'd be set.:MAD
 
Moe said:
Lewton asks "for charges to be dropped"???!!!
Not so fast there buddy boy....you've been trespassing in Montana far too long to get away this time!!!.:mad:
Moe:cool:
Click to expand...

Moe, are you a witness in the trial? Sounds like you've some first-hand info. Here's more detail from the press - who knows about the accuracy: MT Standard article

It sounds like plenty of shady going on up there among all parties involved and it will be interesting to see how it finalizes. I'll save my comments until it's over but it sure sounds like a witch-hunt gone bad. Unless I'm missing something, the FWP doesn't need to steal a 680 permit from the public and kill a huge ram to bust somebody.. at the snivelling request of some outfitters.

My breaks sheep hunt this November will involve a drift boat, my pal Sniscak, a couple rifles and a lot of cold beer.
 
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Greenhorn said:
Moe, are you a witness in the trial? Sounds like you've some first-hand info. Here's more detail from the press - who knows about the accuracy: MT Standard article

It sounds like plenty of shady going on up there among all parties involved and it will be interesting to see how it finalizes. I'll save my comments until it's over but it sure sounds like a witch-hunt gone bad. Unless I'm missing something, the FWP doesn't need to steal a 680 permit from the public and kill a huge ram to bust somebody.. at the snivelling request of some outfitters.

My breaks sheep hunt this November will involve a drift boat, my pal Sniscak, a couple rifles and a lot of cold beer.
Click to expand...

Thats a fair question. No I'm not a witness, else I'd be under the same 'gag order' everyone else is. I do however have more information I've been hesitant to share; as by doing so might've jebordize my own standing with some important folks; since they know who I am.

But all that ends now,....

I’ll tell ya this much, if charges ‘are dropped’ I'll no longer feel the need to protect any source or worry about consequences with LEO; as by then permanent landowner/hunter damage will have been done.

This was not "at the snivelling request of some outfitters"?!.
Your missing a big piece of the puzzle; it was landowners who reported him as well. Hell, look at my other posts about outfitters; I'm no fan of them gobbling up prime hunting spots with leases either; I wouldn't waste my breath if it only affected them if he gets off.
__________

Here's a little somthing that should make your skin boil; it’s come to my attention "this next jury WILL NOT HEAR the connection between Hall and Lewton on the illegal Super Tag hunt"; as we uncovered on Hunt Talk, "(nor) did the last jury either??!!!"

….How’s that for a TOTALLY SCREWED UP SYSTEM??...I’m not talking “a simple post on Bowsite as evidence” of this folks, “FWP has known all along Lewton was the guide on that hunt too” – “they certainly didn’t need to read a forum to tell them so.”

This is why they: “…were all over me when I checked in the ram at FWP” (Hall’s words on Bowsite), and rightly so?!

..He took it illegally, on his Super Tag Hunt no less (and has since admitted to it); trespassing and using an illegal outfitter and a team of guides ‘posing as friends’; all the while utilizing radios to spot your game for you; and all the while in doing-so jeopardized the long-held landowner/hunter relationships in 680 and the rest of the state that have made Montana ‘a destination for big game outdoor pursuits’!

….Nobody “gets lost, doesn’t have their maps, or is misguided” when Lewton’s around – Hell, the guy knows every inch of 680, as he’s been trespassing on it for 20 frickin years:rolleyes:?!

____________

I don’t envy FWP for the jobs they do, but someone has to do it and thank God people still apply for such things. The fact the ram was a 204 or "a huge ram" only matter to guys who hunt for B&C scores, not to the rest of us who hunt for meat or the thrill of a fair chase pursuit after mature game - Those who would never think of hiring a pilot to spot one for us or have a guide "sit on it for four days and nights" then use radios to coordinate the kill (after its been missed 3 times) and chased into canyon after canyon; so you can video tape it, sell some DVD's, and get to mount the bloody thing in your taxidermist shop?!

This ram was no more important to me being 10 inches wider than the one Hall shot 9 days later, nor should it be looked upon as any greater a loss to Montana than the hundred others that've since died of pnemonea in recent weeks.

Thinking in that vein makes us as hunters look like total score obsessed idiots and the majority who hunt this state are not.

____________________

As far as ‘the Lewton/Hall illegal-hunt connection’ not being admissible in this next court proceedings, you can thank a high-paid attorney, some fancy “pleading out of court by Hall*”; and Lewton's attorneys ability to hand our state-prosecutor their' ass on a plate in the last case!?

(*Which as many have noted on other forums; oddly “ended in a very small fine by comparison to others bighorn poaching”, and he in fact; “got to keep the cape and mount??”)

__________________

While the FWP might be under ‘a gag order’, which is obviously hindering justice IMO; and the Montana regional-press are a bunch of sorry good for nuthin pussies for not exposing the truth before now; ….I am not under any such gag, nor a pussy!

There’s one thing Lewton’s attorney didn’t count on and that is a pissed off unemployed Montana sportsman, with OCD, a bad back, nothing to lose, and apparently one who tends to ‘obsess over things like this?!’

My apolgize, Greenhorn enjoy your hunt; sounds like the way I'd do it too.


Moe:cool:
 
He could be a real scoundrel or a decent guy - I wouldn't know. Has he ever been convicted of a crime before? Did he do anything illegal with that supertag sheep? If so, was he prosecuted? If not, does that incident have a place in this trial?

My "snivelling outfitters" remark was based on what I read in the MT standard article..
State officials had issued Gibson a ram tag for the north side of the river to investigate Lewton for illegally guiding after years of complaints by licensed outfitters.
Click to expand...
Another thing I read is this..
the state failed to prove that Lewton broke any laws while pursuing the ram with Gibson
Click to expand...
Go figure.

As for the state's loss of a huge ram only mattering to those "who only hunt for B&C scores".. The ram the FWP killed is among the largest ever recorded in Montana. Are you familiar with what the governor's permit sells for? It's around a quarter million. That wasn't exactly smart or necessary. The permit could have been awarded to one of the 5,281 applicants who tried for it.

Didn't you say this was your 2nd year as a MT resident? How would you know this guy's been tresspassing for 20 years? Just how do you "know" all this stuff? Did you ever find that official measurer to score your antelope? .
 
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Greenhorn said:
He could be a real scoundrel or a decent guy - I wouldn't know. Has he ever been convicted of a crime before? Did he do anything illegal with that supertag sheep? If so, was he prosecuted? If not, does that incident have a place in this trial?

My "snivelling outfitters" remark was based on what I read in the MT standard article..

Another thing I read is this.. Go figure.

As for the state's loss of a huge ram only mattering to those "who only hunt for B&C scores".. The ram the FWP killed is among the largest ever recorded in Montana. Are you familiar with what the governor's permit sells for? It's around a quarter million. That wasn't exactly smart or necessary. The permit could have been awarded to one of the 5,281 applicants who tried for it.

Didn't you say this was your 2nd year as a MT resident? How would you know this guy's been tresspassing for 20 years? Just how do you "know" all this stuff? Did you ever find that official measurer to score your antelope? .
Click to expand...

...................

It appears your jumping into this subject without much research save reading the last article you posted?

Maybe you should read a few posts preceeding this one, a few more statements by Hall and Lewton on-record; then come back.

Be sure and read the part where Hall says "...Lewton wished he'd saved that 204 for him" that's a good one; one of my favorite. I'll say it again; if the sting hadn't taken place the week before; an admitted trespasser (Hall) would have taken the 204 and done-so on private land they had no permission to be on.
As Lewton has stated he was watching that 204, had a man sitting on it for four days and nights, and was waiting for someone to hunt it so he could film it (thats common knowledge to anyone whose followed this from the get-go).

The Governors Tag is what it is, who cares. I dont. It REALLY has no bearing on this case, none whatsoever; so why bring it up?...Unless trying to throw us off the more important subject.

...Its just some big money donated into the system, a fraction of what Montana sportsmen pour into wildlife management each year thru licenses and tags; and there's no garuntee or requirement that the guy who wins it, has to shoot the biggest of anything?!

_________________

Yes I've only been in Montana two years, but I'm not a newbie when it comes to dealing with poachers as I have over 20 arrests to my credit; as an avid sportsman and previous manager of a 22,000 acre plantation. I busted five guys just this past season and sent digital pics to LEO as proof; FWP guy said:"they didnt stand a chance based on my evidence". Did I do it to brag about it or make some reward money- nope, just dont like that shit whether its back in Georgia or in my new home of Montana!
______

"Trophy" down south is a whole lot different than up here as far as whitetail go in most folks minds and nobody even attempts to seriosly score one till its in the dirt. I've killed a hundred deer easy, mostly does, but several bucks and none over 130"; so you can see its not my thing. I like most, do however like to take one at least 4 years old simply because it let the thing live a bit before I took its life; and if his racks something cool.. thats just a bonus.

I only mention the above as per your "antelope comment" which was stupid, geta clue; your grasping at straws now and avoiding the Lewton/Hall connection as a tactic of defending them I suppose? That bucks the first one I ever saw, hunted, so I shot it cause I had a tag (on a BMA in fact after asking permission form an elderly landlady), its meat has long since been eaten and was some of the most delicious by the way.

And if you bothered to read my threads instead of just posting on them; you'd know "that buck has been hanging on my wall for 6 months before I even thought of what it scored"..(out of curiosity).....Thats a BIG difference between trying to score one on the hoof and zeroing in on JUST that ram/buck or paying some guy $1,000.00 to locate it by airplane.

__________

Yeah, I'm new to Montana, but how long does one have to live here before they get wise to this dudes' pentient for trespassing, based on the evidence we all have before us? If he did it twice in one season over a two week period, the state already had an investigation about it becuase of several complaints from previous years; then I think its safe to assume Lewtons been up to this sort of thing for as long as he's been at it.

But your right, it is much easier to just sit back and say 'screw FWP, it must be a witch hunt because the game guy shot my 204' ...:rolleyes:??

Why not tackle the real issue at hand and stop defending the law breaker with his high-paid lawyer; thats staring you in the face.

If you think I sound like a nut for being in the minority on this issue; you should put yourself in my shoes or FWP's and have to read endless gibberish posted by guys in defense of this trespasser; based on some suspicions that FWP and this huge group of outfitters, landowners, and dozens of LEO officers, the federal prosecutors office, and anyone else who says differently is in on a witch hunt after poor Jon Lewton.

_____

And finally,....

How do "I know all this"...you wouldn't believe me if I told you..

I just picked up my handy dandy little cell phone and called a few important people who didn't know me from Adam and they flat out confirmed everything I'd suspected.

....Now isn't it odd that a reporter hasn't bothered to do the same before now??..And instead they just keep printing these pre-censored news releases, cut and pasting them into thier little rags they try to pass as newspapers, and never question what they MUST know to be incomplete info, all the while acting like good little sheep themselves?!

Makes me cringe at what else the local press has known about other more serious high-profile trials or arrests and "sat on their hands" about it for years; complying with those calling the shots up top?

In the end they are just as much to blame for this mess, as if they'd have simply done what professional reporters in other states do and actually questioned and dug into stories like this a little deeper; many would be less inclined to blame FWP right off the bat for being on a witch hunt.

Moe
 
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Moe, I was just kidding in my last post. :D

I'm not defending anybody, but in this country you're innocent until proven guilty. If he's found guilty, then I hope he's punished and the state is compensated by Lewton. In my opinion, something serious will have to stick to make swiping that permit and killing that ram worth it. Had Lewton either taken money for guiding the agent, or taken the rifle and nailed the ram after the agent missed.. then it might have been worth it.

Thanks for the rambling essay which didn't answer any of my questions above - other than that you've just migrated here from a plantation in the south and that you know everything because somebody else told you so on the phone.
 
Greenhorn said:
Moe, I was just kidding in my last post. :D

I'm not defending anybody, but in this country you're innocent until proven guilty. If he's found guilty, then I hope he's punished and the state is compensated by Lewton. In my opinion, something serious will have to stick to make swiping that permit and killing that ram worth it. Had Lewton either taken money for guiding the agent, or taken the rifle and nailed the ram after the agent missed.. then it might have been worth it.

Thanks for the rambling essay which didn't answer any of my questions above - other than that you've just migrated here from a plantation in the south and that you know everything because somebody else told you so on the phone.
Click to expand...

Oh I know sarcasism when I see it; I just enjoyed reading those words on there the last 24hours I didn't dare try and prove you wrong.:D

...and as you can imagine I dont hear them too often either; except from my dogs.

In the end all my longwinded ramblings, rebuttals, and posts about this, accomplish little except my sharing an opinion and defending FWP. I know I'm in the minority on this issue and might have even alienated a few while doing so, but thats of little concern to me.

My posts, while somewhat off color and defamatory depending on who you ask, arent any worse or different than the millions about Tiger Woods based on something someone read then ran with it online, nor are they any different than sharing political beliefs online whether your Republican or Democrats; about immigration, health care, or what some Senator did behind closed doors with a hooker. Its all just viral shit in the end and a way to vent.

You can search high and low and never see a post by me (except ironicly my breif outburst on the AZ thread) and you wont find where I've ever engaged in political or religious threads. I simply dont share those views, unlike some.

I do however, when it comes to hunting and tend to get bent on topics; especially when I moved all the way to Montana for the sole sake of doing so; and when I get here find out somethings aren't as they should be (defense of trespassers, wolf issues, and harboring wildlife from hunting).

Ultimately its just a way of venting....

My involvement in this means nothing nor will it have any affect on the case, as there's enough evidence out there already; and its unlikely, given only about a couple hundred guys are reading this forum daily, that out of the million folks in Montana any potential jurors are cruising this site and finding my ramblings on the subject.

What really caused me to jump into this mess was a post I saw on another forum (one I'm not a member of), but made me furious to see and never pulled down:mad:?!

It suggested that "Warden Gibson should be shot for killing the ram"! (and it wasn't meant in jest either).

So you can blame that idiot for writing such ignorant shit online and that forums' moderators for never removing it as the catalyst for me getting worked up over this case and trying to balance the hunting publics' perception of it.

To conclude, if charges are dropped I'll post who said what and be done with it, but you wont likely hear me change my opinion on anything I've typed unless some amazing new evidence debunks everything we know already? If that comes to light and/or FWP all of a sudden says "they made a terrible mistake and had the wrong guy", I'll go on-record, apologize to both subjects and the media, and ask for forgiveness on here for stearing you folks wrong, and never log-onto Hunt Talk again;.

..but dont start celebrating just yet; cause it aint likely to happen..

Moe:cool:
 
Now I doubt the FWP did this on a hunch.. and when there's smoke there's usually fire..

Did you say something about Tiger? :D
6a00d8341c7ae753ef0120a8141864970b-pi
 
Fellas....1 hour until happy hour. Let's take a break and see what unfolds next week.
 
I'm with you Miller, and as cool as the inside of a Yetti cooler on this subject, till after the next verdict?

...But in keeping with my 'full disclosure' theme; I thought it only fair to expose Greenhorn and any others who thought differently to the "mental giant" they're up against on this topic; if they should continue to engage me....

http://moebirdhunts.blogspot.com/

Moe:cool:
.
 
Hey Miller,

Does it being Sunday evening constitute it being "next week" yet;; cause I got an itchy trigger finger here I guess...?:cool:

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/article/20100501/NEWS01/5010306/Unlawful-outfitting-trial-gets-postponed

Not sure what to say after reading this (and wont even bother to point out another 'missing item'), and it appears this reporter does in fact have some of his 'felonious charges' mixed up in what counties;...else we've all got the wrong info:confused:?

I did spot something really neat though....

Anyone remember the mysterious Justice 1776 whose infamous ramblings on Bowsite (and then went viral on nearlly every forum) and even appeared in News Papers' accounts of his "sitting in on all 5 days of the last trial" and how much everyone who was against FWP and for Lewton appreciated his ...uh "unique perspective"....even though its been pulled off nearly every forum since; as several folks came forward saying this mystery-man wasn't at the trial 'UNLESS he was Lewton in disguise' OR 'maybe a juror..?'

WELL....take a look-see at the very first "comment" below the article and the 3rd one down too and see what you see..:eek::eek::eek:?

He's back!!!...

....and pissed-off so bad he's misspelling every other word!!..Not that I'm above such things, but any phyciatrist will tell you (including a few of my own) "this is a clear indication of someone whose not being forthwright when they say who they say they are"... (oh shit, just contradicted myself again - refer to blog for full disclosure):rolleyes:?

At any rate, do to the inconsistancies in the article itself, and use of some legal-terms I'm unfamiliar with;...I dont know whether there's a trial or not:confused:?

With my limited knowledge of such things though, I ask aloud and invite any answers as to: "why does a trial thats been on the books for 6 months and set to take place on May 3rd, complete with a different jury, get postponed so they CAN IN FACT hold another previously unheard of trial on Tuesday May 4th, to give Lewtons' incredibly gifted attorney (at handing out asses on plates) an opportunity to present an objection to a trial thats been on the books for 6 months?"

_______

I tell ya, ever since OJ and his aquittal, and the fact 250 Million Americans know damned well that idiot killed his wife and her boyfriend; you can pretty much say I dont trust the court-system and jury trials we have today and hope to hell I never find myself in front of one; especially in Montana.


Moe:cool:
 
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