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commission approves reducing elk herds

muleguy

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A broad plan to protect against animal disease around Yellowstone National Park by targeting infected elk herds gained initial approval Thursday from Montana wildlife commissioners.
The plan includes measures to reduce the size of some elk herds, haze the animals away from livestock and even erect elk-proof fending. It was drafted by a state-appointed citizens working group.
The hope is to curb elk-to-livestock transmissions of the disease brucellosis, which can cause pregnant animals to miscarry their young and brings significant costs for the cattle industry.
Thursday's adoption of the citizens group's recommendations by the Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks Commission opens the plan to public comment.
Details not yet settled include which elk herds could be targeted and whether that would be done through normal hunting seasons.
Members of the citizens group said they offered only those proposals they thought could be effective and widely accepted.
Disagreements among landowners, hunters and the livestock industry have complicated past efforts to resolve the problem.
Some landowners raise worries about government workers coming onto private property to haze elk. Hunters, meanwhile, want to guard against killing off too many of the animals in the name of protecting livestock.
Brucellosis has been eliminated elsewhere in the country but persists in elk and bison in parts of Wyoming, Idaho and Montana adjacent to Yellowstone.
"The key thing is that we maintain spatial separation between (brucellosis) positive elk and breeding livestock," said Rick Gibson, a member of the citizens group and a rancher from the Livingston area. Gibson has faced significant costs from disease testing and vaccinations now required of livestock producers in the Yellowstone area.
Other steps called for in the plan adopted Thursday include increased monitoring of infected elk, public funding to put up fences around cattle feed areas and reduced wolf pack numbers to keep the predators from driving elk onto ranchland.
For years, some of the most aggressive brucellosis control actions have centered on Yellowstone's bison, which are periodically slaughtered by the hundreds during their winter migrations to prevent infections in cattle.
But the region's approximately 100,000 elk are more loosely managed. Researchers say brucellosis has been spreading within elk herds and showing up in new areas in recent decades.
"Not only has the geographic range expanded, but in some areas the (rate of infections) has increased," State Veterinarian Marty Zaluski told commissioners.
Officials have shied away from the capture and slaughter of diseased elk — a controversial approach that has been used in Wyoming with some success but at great cost.
Members of the Gallatin Wildlife Association, a sporting group, had urged the commission not to adopt the plan, saying the proposal needed more public input and could prove too costly.
In the past decade alone at least 14 brucellosis infections in livestock were reported in Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. Elk were named as the likely source of the disease in most cases.
Some of the infections triggered harsh sanctions against the region's lucrative livestock industries by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. The federal government and livestock officials in other states have more recently softened their stance, largely due to more aggressive testing and vaccine programs for Yellowstone area livestock.
A brucellosis-monitoring initiative for Montana elk that began two winters ago has so far found new cases of the disease in southwest Montana's Ruby Valley and the nearby Gravelly and Snowcrest ranges south of Dillon. About 12 percent of the animals captured tested positive for exposure to the disease.
More tests are planned on elk in the southern Pioneer Mountains this winter and in the Tobacco Root Mountains in the winter of 2013-2014.
 
That's absolute bullshit.

Ranchers are going to piss sportsman off with that one.
 
,But the region's approximately 100,000 elk are more loosely managed..

What are they smoking. Last years count had the Northern Herd at 4700. I'm about ready to haze the livestock back down the Paradise Valley. This area is far from the great cattle producing areas we have elsewhere. The way they are talking you would think that Montana only has cattle up the Paradise.:rolleyes:

Funny that in the unit I hunted this year the elk outnumber the cattle and yet they don't seem to be screaming the sky is falling out there.

I did a quick search about brucellosis and this is from the CDC web page

"What is brucellosis?

Brucellosis is an infectious disease caused by the bacteria of the genus Brucella. These bacteria are primarily passed among animals, and they cause disease in many different vertebrates. Various Brucella species affect sheep, goats, cattle, deer, elk, pigs, dogs, and several other animals. Humans become infected by coming in contact with animals or animal products that are contaminated with these bacteria. In humans brucellosis can cause a range of symptoms that are similar to the flu and may include fever, sweats, headaches, back pains, and physical weakness. Severe infections of the central nervous systems or lining of the heart may occur. Brucellosis can also cause long-lasting or chronic symptoms that include recurrent fevers, joint pain, and fatigue."


So if this is the case wouldn't we as elk eating people be getting infected from handling "all these infected" elk from gutting to grilling?
 
I would hope the RMEF would be all over this! As Lawnboy says, "This is Bull shit". They don't want Bison, they don't want elk. Looks like they really want control, and this is another round about to get there.:mad:
 
I also would have to call B.S. on this one. How many ranchers are we talking about? I'm not overly familiar with the area in question but a 100,000 elk in that part of the state....really?
 
Before everyone gets the pitchforks and torches, read a better article:
http://helenair.com/news/local/fwp-...cle_e56fa3ae-2a04-11e2-8b76-0019bb2963f4.html

The reduction aspect is the fourth possible action item listed. If you think reducing elk populations in the GYE is a bad idea, you need to read the proposal, email the commission with your thoughts, and then show up at the commission meeting to voice your disapproval of this option.

Livestock producers are unfairly sanctioned when they get a Brucellosis hit. The rules have been relaxed on this, but we're still dealing with a Federal Agency that has not significantly revisted the rules and regulations for this disease since the 1930's.

Brucellosis is now no longer a health concern since the vast majority of people drink pasteurized milk. That's the product wherein most people contracted undulant fever. Now, the only folks who get it are veterinarians who handle samples from infected animals.

It's disheartening to see this group focus on just the elk issue, and not take after the rules and regs issue. You will never get rid of brucellosis in the GYE because of the feedgrounds in Wyoming, and the co-mingling of infected elk and bison from WY, the Parks and MT. I don't care how much money you pour into research, you'll never eradicate it so long as there is a reservoir of disease in the feedgrounds.

Just another example of why feeding wildlife is a bad idea.
 
To me this means the director and commission just kicked the sportsman in the nuts one more time on their way out the door. They could have said no.
Who do you think they will want to pay for all this? Yeah, you guessed it.
 
To me this means the director and commission just kicked the sportsman in the nuts one more time on their way out the door. They could have said no.
Who do you think they will want to pay for all this? Yeah, you guessed it.

We were able to get a veto on a bill from last session that would have essentially mandated test and slaughter due to brucellosis concerns. That bill will be coming back, or at least another version of it.

The 4 alternatives actually do provide some reasonable choices when it comes to

a.) doing nothing and leaving livestock producers out there to swing in the wind, and possibly lose our Brucellosis free status once again, harming our economy.

b.) Kill all the elk and bison, never even getting to the problem which is the feedgrounds in Wyoming.

I'm not sure I agree with the idea of hunting elk post February 15, or reducing wintering herds. I think we've seen enough reduction of elk herds inside the DSA due to the legislature meddling, and the enviros disallowing wolf management.

But, even if all four of these choices are implemented, we're not going to eliminate brucellosis in the state of MT. There are too many reservoirs outside of the state's control to do that. So, you have to focus on what you can do. In this case, spatial and temporal separation along with vaccination of livestock make the most sense to me.

Reducing elk numbers is not a viable solution, but I'm not sure we want to hire herders at FWP's expense to go out and shoo elk away from cattle when cattle are vulnerable (during elk parturition).

So what's the board's answer?
 
It's disheartening to see this group focus on just the elk issue, and not take after the rules and regs issue. You will never get rid of brucellosis in the GYE because of the feedgrounds in Wyoming, and the co-mingling of infected elk and bison from WY, the Parks and MT. I don't care how much money you pour into research, you'll never eradicate it so long as there is a reservoir of disease in the feedgrounds.

Has the livestock, and Dept. worked on changing the rules, and regs issues? If they don't then why would we? It's their baby to watch over their flocks, and we watch over ours. That's what we're doing.

What I see is more elk taking it in the shorts, for the livestock industry, and nothing really gets solved. We rely on those SW Montana elk to a huge degree economically. To reduce one industry for another is wrong. The dept of livestock should be working on a solution not the MTFW&P's. IMO.

What I have been hearing is we need more elk for more out-of-state, and in-state hunters to pursue for the economic benefits that go with it. Then we get this drivel.
 
Has the livestock, and Dept. worked on changing the rules, and regs issues? If they don't then why would we? It's their baby to watch over their flocks, and we watch over ours. That's what we're doing.

Yes. Under Schweitzer and current DOL EO Mackay, they have led the effort to get the rules re-classified and down grade Brucellosis. They have had great success in this but it's not enough, IMO. I do think that DOL has done as good a job on their end as they could possibly do.

What I see is more elk taking it in the shorts, for the livestock industry, and nothing really gets solved. We rely on those SW Montana elk to a huge degree economically. To reduce one industry for another is wrong. The dept of livestock should be working on a solution not the MTFW&P's. IMO.

Read the proposal. Elk reduction is a small part of it, and would be applied in specific instances. I think that portion can be stripped out with enough support from resident hunters. The reality is the spatial and temporal separation is the key to keeping cattle from being infected by elk. Hazing and other methods such as late season hunts designed to disperse elk could be an option.

DOL has no authority over elk. The legislature will once again try to give them that authority. DOL has acted aggresively on their end with the establishment of the Designated Survellience Area and other measures including increased vaccinations for livestock to limit the spread of infection. They have been succesful in that regard. They were able to regain MT's brucellosis free status quickly and efficiently under this model.

What I have been hearing is we need more elk for more out-of-state, and in-state hunters to pursue for the economic benefits that go with it. Then we get this drivel.

Did you read it or are you relying on other people's interpretations? ;)
 
Did you read it or are you relying on other people's interpretations? ;)


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[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Additional Elk Distribution Management Alternative [/FONT][/FONT]
Hunting
[FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Reduce winter herd size/density
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Develop adaptive hunting regulations
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Develop late season hunts (beyond 15 Feb)
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]FWP use hunt coordinators for management hunts
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Use season structure to address harboring
[/FONT][/FONT]

I'm not a rocket scientist, but I do believe that(Reduce winter herd size/density) means to reduce the elk herd by killing them. I also thought I read where they would re address the elk objectives for the region.;)

You should know enough about me by now that I don't get my info off a bar stool.
 
I'm not a rocket scientist, but I do believe that(Reduce winter herd size/density) means to reduce the elk herd by killing them. I also thought I read where they would re address the elk objectives for the region.;)

You should know enough about me by now that I don't get my info off a bar stool.

It's still only a part of the picture that the group has painted. And I don't read as much nefarious activity into this as you do. The idea of dispersing elk through the use of hunters is one that MT has used for quite a while now, correct? Does that not change herd density?

Here's the rest of it:

Habitat
o Perform/suggest landscape alterations that will promote spatial and temporal separation of elk and livestock during critical
brucellosis risk periods
o Small, scattered manipulation (for example, high intensity/short duration livestock grazing of underused areas) of native vegetation on
WMAs and public lands to attract/retain elk
o Plantings
o More rest/rotation grazing
o Water development

Containment
o In open (primarily non-timbered) elk winter range, reduce wolf/pack numbers
o More intensive hazing of elk in high risk areas
o Public funding for fencing cattle feeding areas
o Decrease harboring
o Elk-proof fencing for high-risk areas by locale
o Purchase/lease more WMAs for purpose of spatial separation
o Endorse development of collaborative incentives for harborers to allow access

Research/education
o Increase monitoring of seropositive elk movements
o Expand ongoing elk distribution research to DSA and contiguous areas
o Educate harborers (neighbor, affected party, FWP/DOL contacts)
o Delist B. abortus so vaccine can be researched
o Expand ongoing seroprevalence research to DSA and contiguous areas
 
The research and education component is critical for the long term solution. Getting B. Abortus removed from the list of terrorist agents means that we can finally get some good research done on the disease and develop better vaccines for livestock.

The Containment issue also focuses on acquiring more public land, increasing better incentives for landowners and decreasing harboring. All of those have political implications and deserve monitoring, but at least the identified solutions actually track with what is reasonable.

There's just so much more to this than "Sportsmen get shafted and they're going to kill all the elk." Let's work to eliminate the bad portions of this, and focus on the good.
 
The DOL in Montana is the modern mofia. I'd rather rally up some money and pay these 20 or so producers in the paradise to shut their pie holes. Hazing and killing should not be options. How about some real hard data that this is really happening. The spreading from elk and bison. Dang near makes a man want to join some radical nuts and berries group to try and stop this continual nonsense.
I never understood the hazing of buffalo around West Yellowstone during the winter. The only cattle (and it's an extremely small number at that) that use the area is from about the end of June to end of Sept. The buffalo and elk begin migrating back as the snows go away. Very few are still hanging around when the cows show up. Seems senseless to slaughter an animal when the threat isn't even there.
Like I mentioned in another post. The DOL types want to scream about spotted owls and such but when the tables are turned they are really doing the same thing. After seeing the grazing that's been going on in the Gravelly range this fall I have no sympathy for most cattle guys that are using our lands. They should lose the lease and the range manager should be fired from what ever agency is responsible. The place looks like the moon over there. Very little grass and lots of dirt.
Excuse my rant. I'm going to grill up a brucellosis burger and maybe tomorrow with this snow my son can shoot an elk and I again can have the chance to get infected in the gutting process.
 
Why is it that all of these issues come down to how can we force wildlife of some kind away from areas we NEED cattle in. I agree ranching is a western way of life and has a huge pinch of the ball-sac of the feds. but lets be realistic. The only way to fix these problems is to fix the stupid legislation that was created back when pegging you pant legs was cool.

At least Wyo has the chance now to hunt wolves..and make some $ for all their efforts.. one bright mention for the day.
 
Brucellosis Elimination

It is good to see this being discussed on the Hunt Talk forum. In my opinion, the tentative brucellosis elimination proposal recently adopted by the FWP Commission is a very significant departure from how we currently manage elk in SW Montana. Here are some of the objectives from the proposal as linked to by Ben Lamb:

MEANS OBJECTIVE: Develop more effective Brucella abortus vaccine and vaccination protocols.
MEANS OBJECTIVE: Contain, reduce, and eventually eliminate Brucellosis.
MEANS OBJECTIVE: Minimize seroprevalence in elk in each wintering elk herd within the DSA (measure seroprevalence).

All of these stated objectives should be of concern, in particular the second one, which aims to eventually eliminate Brucellosis. Really? How has that been done in the past with cattle or bison? - by capturing, testing, vaccinating and mainly slaughtering animals. Furthermore, FWP only has authority in Montana - the Greater Yellowstone Area is an extensive area that encompasses three states, not to mention Yellowstone National Park.

Regading the first objective listed, It appears the FWP will be tasked with developing elk vaccines and vaccination protocals. That is a pretty big change and how has that worked elsewhere - not so well.

And minimizing seroprevalence in elk in each wintering elk herd in SW Montana - what does that buys us beyond an endless and very costly tail chasing burden on the FWP and sportsmen - nothing.

What we can do is work together with concerned land and livestock owners to minimize the risk of transmission from elk or other wildlife and cattle. The DSA is helping us do just that.
 
It is good to see this being discussed on the Hunt Talk forum. In my opinion, the tentative brucellosis elimination proposal recently adopted by the FWP Commission is a very significant departure from how we currently manage elk in SW Montana. Here are some of the objectives from the proposal as linked to by Ben Lamb:

MEANS OBJECTIVE: Develop more effective Brucella abortus vaccine and vaccination protocols.
MEANS OBJECTIVE: Contain, reduce, and eventually eliminate Brucellosis.
MEANS OBJECTIVE: Minimize seroprevalence in elk in each wintering elk herd within the DSA (measure seroprevalence).

All of these stated objectives should be of concern, in particular the second one, which aims to eventually eliminate Brucellosis. Really? How has that been done in the past with cattle or bison? - by capturing, testing, vaccinating and mainly slaughtering animals. Furthermore, FWP only has authority in Montana - the Greater Yellowstone Area is an extensive area that encompasses three states, not to mention Yellowstone National Park.

Regading the first objective listed, It appears the FWP will be tasked with developing elk vaccines and vaccination protocals. That is a pretty big change and how has that worked elsewhere - not so well.

And minimizing seroprevalence in elk in each wintering elk herd in SW Montana - what does that buys us beyond an endless and very costly tail chasing burden on the FWP and sportsmen - nothing.

What we can do is work together with concerned land and livestock owners to minimize the risk of transmission from elk or other wildlife and cattle. The DSA is helping us do just that.

Very good points Glenn, we couldn't even attempt this thing without cooperation from the other states, and Federal Government.


Containment
o In open (primarily non-timbered) elk winter range, reduce wolf/pack numbers
o More intensive hazing of elk in high risk areas
o Public funding for fencing cattle feeding areas
o Decrease harboring
o Elk-proof fencing for high-risk areas by locale
o Purchase/lease more WMAs for purpose of spatial separation
o Endorse development of collaborative incentives for harborers to allow access

I already addressed the Hunting element, and I'm good with Research/education. So I'll hit the Containment portion.

1) Most WMA don't allow hunting after season, so how are we going to remove wolves and lions in those areas effectively? This should be handled by sportsman.

2) No hazing of elk. That's a Montana law. I hate hypocrisy.

3) Good luck on #3, private property rights and all in Montana.

4) I hate elk proof fencing, but would cautiously look at what is proposed.

5) Always in favor of more public lands. Problem I see is a possible lack of funding available.

6) See #3;)

So we now have looked at the links, and I say everyone grab your pitch forks and meet me at the 7 Eleven in Helena.:mad::mad::eek::D
 
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