Colorado Filming Permit Denied

[69chevey]

I wouldn't give up on colorado just yet!! I've taken quite a few elk and nice bucks in the wilderness areas there.I found it one of the best places to hunt on your own ,if not the best in the country,I used to spend 3-4 weeks there religiously chasing elk and mule deer over the counter tags for elk and easy draw tags for mulies for bow hunting the best times in my life hunting were spent there!!

 

[easeup]

BLM lock out

on a similar note,
as a NR I have found BLM lands to be much more difficult to gain access to thatn NF lands.
The publication of access to BLM is always some what secret it seems. Most times when I have looked into them(not associated with RFW) there are locks on the property gates. Of course last thing I want to do is jump a fence and potentially get nabbed for trespassing.

I hope to learn more about BLM access and use.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

you would think that as a oyoa show sponser,that they hopefully wont denie your filming permit apps in the future,,,but then again ,its a government thing.any updates on this issue?

 

[1_pointer]

you would think that as a oyoa show sponser,that they hopefully wont denie your filming permit apps in the future,,,but then again ,its a government thing.any updates on this issue?

I think your a bit confused on the issue as I don't think the BLM, who denied the filming permit, is a sponsor of the show.

 

[Southwind]

Criminal by any reasonable measure. This kind of stuff makes my head want to explode

 

[tarheel]

It wouldn't surprise me to find that someone at BLM or DOW gave the rancher a heads up as to your intentions to hunt the locked portion, thus allowing him to get your intended parcel included into his exclusive club.

 

[sagebrush]

Is there really a snake under every fricken rock in this country anymore? That's Randy for making us aware.

 

[canvsbk]

A little investigating by those 60 Minutes guys is in order here.

 

[Duck-Slayer]

in my opinion most of this country was build on dishonest stuff like this by government officials, but hey at least we live in a free country too a point...., lets just hope this makes more people aware and something may get done too change this and hopefully it doesn't happen in any other state, and as far as the greatest OYO state, you can't beat Idaho, at least we can hunt wilderness without a guide, unlike wyoming unless of coarse you are one of the few that actually lives there, isn't that the same deal we are talking about here but this is public land benefiting outfitters.....:W:
Matt

 

[CabinFever]

If you guys didn't notice this thread is from the boneyard, however it'd be interesting to know if anything has change on this issue?

 

[Ben Lamb]

If you guys didn't notice this thread is from the boneyard, however it'd be interesting to know if anything has change on this issue?

No change yet. There was some talk of introducing a bill to clarify the issue so guys like Randy can get in and film, but it would keep out the Hollywood style productions.

Can't see how a couple of guys with a handheld are going to cause any damage or reduce the wilderness experience at all. Looks like a rule that got caught up in beltway logic.

 

[dustinf]

Can't see how a couple of guys with a handheld are going to cause any damage or reduce the wilderness experience at all. Looks like a rule that got caught up in beltway logic.

They think everyone is making Avatar money, and want a piece of it...

 

[bjtc_brian]

I have a question about this. Wouldn't this also happen on State Trust land in Montana if it is encompassed in a Block Management program and not accessible by land? I don't mean that they would have to stop the filming permit, but the BM program regulates the hunting rights on State Lands that it encompasses. So if the BM only allows a certain number of scheduled hunters or only allows cow eld to be killed, you would be in violation. I know I have brought this up before, but this is somewhat of a different scenario. I personally think that rule should be changed!

 

[smitho]

If this information was coming from anyone else I would call BS and say that this was too proposterous to be true! There must be something we can do to change this!

 

[ihuntelk]

Fin,
I am positive you can still access and hunt OUR land legally. I have looked at helicopters and supercubs as a way of accessing some 'landlocked' parcels in several states. BLM has a provision for "Casual Use" that will allow you to access those lands. If there is a 2-track, road, or I would argue, an open spot to land, then it can be classified as "casual use" and you don't need a special-use permit for the whirly bird or supercub. What throws OYOA out of the picture is because you're filming "for gain" and have to have the film permit, they can throw you out as it's not "casual". We all know most shows film without permits. In all my research, there have only been a few charged with not having the permit. I can't find 1 example of BLM issuing charges/fines. I say to H$%# with 'em and do it anyway. YOU HAVE THE TAG AND WANT TO HUNT PUBLIC GROUND. Your fine will be less than the cost of the permit you're trying to secure and then you'll have to agree to be a good boy and have permits for the rest of your hunts on federal lands - which you admirably already do. All the examples I can find would lead me to believe that the precedence has been set and it will be a small slap on the hand and maybe a minute of your show to educate everyone on film permits.

I'm still mulling that scenario for my Wyoming elk hunt this fall. I will call the Warden so he can see that the supercub is just flying me over the private to the public land on top and dropping me off, we're not trying to locate or harass game. I won't hunt that first day but at 0700 the next morning, elk beware!!!

You could also call the BLM Field Manager (Authorized Officer) for the area you plan to hunt. They have the right to waive any/all of this mumbo jumbo. If they're reasonable, you'll be hunting. If not, you could get drug into a 10 year Environmental Assessment to determine how 2 people on public land could disrupt the whole ecosystem................

- Cade
www.HuntForeverWest.com

 

[Topgun 30-06]

"I say to H$%# with 'em and do it anyway. YOU HAVE THE TAG AND WANT TO HUNT PUBLIC GROUND. Your fine will be less than the cost of the permit you're trying to secure and then you'll have to agree to be a good boy and have permits for the rest of your hunts on federal lands - which you admirably already do. All the examples I can find would lead me to believe that the precedence has been set and it will be a small slap on the hand and maybe a minute of your show to educate everyone on film permits."

***Advising anyone, especially a person of Randy's ethics and stature, to violate the law is about as dumb as it gets!!!

 

[Big Fin]

Fin,
I am positive you can still access and hunt OUR land legally. ................

- Cade

Cade - Yes, I can access this parcel. Anyone can access this parcel. But only for non-hunting purposes.

No, I cannot hunt this section of OUR land legally. Doing so without a Ranching For Wildlife tag would be in violation of a CO Commission rule, making that hunting on a public permit illegal.

No, I cannot get a BLM filming permit for purposes of filming a hunting episode if that episode ends up being defined as illegal hunting under Commission rule.

No, I cannot hunt this parcel with my public land tag. Per CO Commission rule.

No, other hunters cannot hunt there with the public land permit they might draw.

The parcels in question have been enrolled in the Ranching for Wildlife Program with Three Forks Ranch. As such, the only tags that are valid on these lands, even though they are public lands, are those purchased from Three Forks Ranch as part of their RFW. That is by CO Commission rule. I have piles of data provided to me, supporting this issue.

Yes, these are BLM parcels. Yes, I had burned points to draw the deer tag. Yes, I had everything lined up.

No, my public draw deer permit is not valid on public land enrolled on a private RFW hunting operation, even if it is public land. Once the RFW operator gets the BLM and CO P&W to agree to enrollment in the RFW program, the hunting on those lands is governed by the RFW rule. In other words you can only hunt it if you draw a RFW permit (residents only) or you purchase a tag from the RFW cooperator. Neither of which work for a non-resident trying to do a self-guided hunt on these lands.

No, the BLM cannot give me a permit where my hunting would be in violation of state Commission Rule, no matter how strange or obscure state rule may be. It is a Commission regulation that allows public lands to be enrolled in RFW programs, wherein hunting on those lands is turned over to a private enterprise.

Yes, it is screwed up. BLM and CO Parks and Wildlife feel that with this Commission rule in place, enrolling isolated parcels results in a net increase in public access, even if some enterprising guy might want to access it via air. Not saying the BLM or CPW staff agree with the rule, but with the rule in effect, they feel that enrollment increases access more than not enrolling under the law.

I would like to see those public permits be valid on all BLM ground, whether that ground is enrolled in a RFW operation, or not. The odds of some guy from MT getting the CO Commission to change that rule, is pretty slim.

The folks I deal with at CO Parks and Wildlife are great people. The folks I dealt with on this issue, both BLM and CPW were great people, but they have no choice but to follow their Commission rules. I hold no anomosity toward those staff and employees. They are doing great work for hunters, resident and non-resident and I continue to hunt CO and will hunt it again this year.

How this rule came to be and why it still exists is a mystery to me. If it is changed, I am a happy camper.

It does show what influence certain groups have over our public resources. Ridiculous influence. If ever I agreed with the term "privatization of wildlife," this would be the classic definition. For those of you who think Ranch For Wildlife, or similar programs, would benefit your state, I suggest you look into things like this before advocating such.

As you can see, this thread is from a while back.

Oh, and I have been told by Utah guys, that the same rule applies for CWMUs, the same concept as RFW in CO. I never looked deep enough into the Utah system to verify, but would not be surprised, given who is the promoter of such ideas in Utah.

 

[idnative1948]

Sorry, but I have to say, "WTF?"

 

[ihuntelk]

After I got on and read the newer posts, I got all wound up and replied before I looked at the whole post and saw it was started a couple years ago. LOL! I then read all the thread and figured out it was probably more of a commission rule than BLM. I then wondered about access to public lands in Utah CWMU's......... which you answered as well. UNBELIEVABLE!

I believe Idaho Game and Fish rules read that it has to be a "designated landing strip" or something of the sorts to limit just such a thing.

I'm gonna go pull out my Colorado regs and see how their verbiage reads that can legally exclude hunters with a permit for that unit from public lands within the RFW area. I'll let you know if I come up with any other hair brain ideas!
Thanks,

-Cade
www.HuntForeverWest.com

 

[ardrhi]

I am glad that I live in Idaho.