Colorado Filming Permit Denied

[MN Public Hunter]

it was so long I had to quit reading....just film and don't pull a permit. j/K

 

[rosco]

The same thing happens in Utah, but being UT thats no big surprise...Sad to hear CO is the same way.

 

[Wyodeerhunter]

Damn, thats frickin' crazy!!!

Randy,
Can you use your public tag if its ok'd by the landowner with the RFW program for the area?

What part of CO??

 

[Big Fin]

Damn, thats frickin' crazy!!!

Can you use your public tag if its ok'd by the landowner with the RFW program for the area?

No, you have to use a RFW tag. Even him granting permission will not make your tag usable on enrolled RFW acreage. Since RFW tags are worth a lot of money, expect to pay a lot, and throw your public tag in the trash.

What part of CO??

NW to NC - Unit 5.

Not trying to single out this one operator, as there are RFW properties spread around Colorado. Not sure how many of them have enrolled BLM acreage. This one was most attractive, as the cumulative BLM acreage looks to be over 5,000 acres among many different parcels. And, tags are easy to get. Reason I did not look at others is due to the difficulty of drawing tags in some of the units they are located.

Granted, not many people would take a chopper into isolated BLM parcels, but it is happening more and more.Two or three guys split the cost of the chopper flights and it is less than the cost of what I paid for a Beaver transport in Alaska.

I know guys who access some of the best elk hunting in eastern Montana by doing that. And there are many of us who are waiting to draw the tag that would allow us to do the same thing. Thinking I need to start a chopper booking service out of Billings and Casper from September - November.

More and more people will look into doing this as the cost of chopper flights comes down. F&G agencies and the BLM should expect more inquiries.

Regardless of the inquiries and requests by hunters, there just seems to be something wrong when a private landowner can effectively make the public land his for hunting rights. And in doing so, increase the number of tags he is allocated for selling via his fee hunting operation.

Call me bullheaded, but I see no sanity in such a policy. Maybe I am wrong, and I hope people would tell me if I am off base on that one.

 

[Dinkshooter]

Call me bullheaded, but I see no sanity in such a policy. Maybe I am wrong, and I hope people would tell me if I am off base on that one.

Not off base, not even close.

Just so non-Colorado folks know. Not saying that this particular RFW is this way, but for the most part here is a example..............................the public draw RFW hunters would get to hunt bucks in mid October or normal hunting season dates. The sold RFW tags sometimes get to hunt the end of November and December. There are exceptions but for the most part those are the dates.

The public draw elk hunters would most likely be allowed to hunt in mid to late October or later. The sold RFW tags are hunting bulls with a rifle during September.

When the RFW proponents talk of the great hunting opportunities RFW provides, they are usually talking about all the doe and cow tags that they allow. Great for some folks. Big whoop to most. Seriously, if you can’t kill a cow elk in Colorado on public land with a leftover tag, you are not trying or you need to do something else on the weekends. Seriously.

A lot of Non-residents were whining when Colorado stopped allowing them to apply for RFW, I say it was a stroke of luck to those Non-residents, who saved their points for better hunts.

 

[Dinkshooter]

Here is part of a email quote from a HT "Lurker" and friend of mine from Iowa. He is half queer and talks with a lisp but don't hold that against him.

"That really sucks about the CO RFW taking up both state and BLM land. I read that on hunttalk and even i'm appalled at that".

Like I said before, no one knows about this.

 

[dmserpa]

Big Fin,, you have the forum to correct this travisty. I know this takes time and effort but what a better way than to take a few minutes of your program to explain whats happening and to rally the troops to get behind an effort to right a wrong. Someone needs to take this on to protect all of us that do OYO hunting!!!!!! ,,,,,,,,,,Dennis

 

[Big Fin]

Big Fin,, you have the forum to correct this travisty. I know this takes time and effort but what a better way than to take a few minutes of your program to explain whats happening and to rally the troops to get behind an effort to right a wrong. Someone needs to take this on to protect all of us that do OYO hunting!!!!!! ,,,,,,,,,,Dennis

I agree. Unfortunately all the footage is shot and edited for this year, so it would be Q3 and Q4 of 2011 before people hear about it. So, I thought it best to post it here and hopefully it will spread to some other sites.

When we are next in the field filming episodes, I will be talking about this. Whether or not it makes the edit, or passes network QC, who knows, but I will be trying to let people know that these kind of rules are passed in many of these western states and are usually not to the benefit of self-guided hunters, rather most often to our detriment.

 

[Big Fin]

The same thing happens in Utah, but being UT thats no big surprise...Sad to hear CO is the same way.

Rosco - Is that true with the CWMU operations, also? I had no idea. Guess I better not plan on filming hunts on any public lands within boundaries of CWMUs. Thanks for that tidbit.

And people wonder why residents of states without these kind of programs are so leery about any proposal that resembles RFW/CWMU. Go figure.

 

[M. R. Byrd]

At one time I hunted near Ricky Schroeder's ranch near Grand Junction. I understood it was in the RFW and if you drew a limited public tag there, you could get in the locked gate at a specific time and would be let out at a specific time.

This link says the ranch was 16,000 acres, he owned 800 cattle, quarter horses and owned 2,000 deer.

http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/participant.jsp?spid=172220&apid=0

I have had experience with Utah RFW while hunting national forest in Colorado where the Utah rancher sent two men on horseback into the forest. They rode the forest all the time carrying on a conversation in a loud voice.

I think the RFW program is not good for our sport hunting and should be reduced tremendously or eliminated totally.

 

[HillbillyInNevada]

I can remember reading a very lengthy thread (don't recall if it was this site) discussing a hypothetical of flying into landlocked BLM land in Wyoming with parachute planes after the "corner jumping" case played out. If I recall correctly, the thread came to the conclusion that it was illegal to fly into landlocked BLM land unless it had an established runway or something like that.

Anyone else remember reading this thread or have an understanding of the law on this issue?

 

[thecrittergitter]

Colorado has some absolutely stupid azzes making decisions there.......Not that every state doesn't but CO seems to take the cake. The other thing that just blew me away with CO is that Landowners can get so many tags allotted for "Landowner Vouchers", yet they can transfer them to whoever they want and then take them and hunt on all the public land and permissable private land in the unit. I always thought the goal of "landowner tags" were to help the landowner with crop damage, ect.....but all it really is is another method of making this a rich mans sport....

Frickin Ridiculous!!

 

[Wyodeerhunter]

I can remember reading a very lengthy thread (don't recall if it was this site) discussing a hypothetical of flying into landlocked BLM land in Wyoming with parachute planes after the "corner jumping" case played out. If I recall correctly, the thread came to the conclusion that it was illegal to fly into landlocked BLM land unless it had an established runway or something like that.

Anyone else remember reading this thread or have an understanding of the law on this issue?

Corner crossing is illegal in Wyo as far as I know.

I'm not aware of any laws restricting landing aircraft on BLM land. I do know you cannot land in wilderness areas. BuzzH could probably fill you in a little more on this.

Just looked at the area big fin was wanting to access and I bet I know the landowner he has to fly over to get to the public land.

I think this outfitter leases his property:

http://www.bigrack.com/index.html

 

[rosco]

Rosco - Is that true with the CWMU operations, also? I had no idea. Guess I better not plan on filming hunts on any public lands within boundaries of CWMUs. Thanks for that tidbit.

And people wonder why residents of states without these kind of programs are so leery about any proposal that resembles RFW/CWMU. Go figure.

I think it was Pointer that brought it ot my attention...I'm sure he can give you a more definitive answer.

 

[WV Hunter]

A savy wordsmith needs to make us a generic letter that we can all cut and paste and bombard the e-mail boxes of the appropriate people who can change this, whether that is members of congress, media, BLM, DOW or whoever in CO. I believe it's called a FIREMISSION.

 

[van franke]

Big Fin that really sucks, I would have loved to have seen that show. Some of colorados programs are pretty messed up, and arent taking into consideration the best interest of the wildlife and the 90% of the public, who is just an average blue collar joe who buys there licenses, and pays there taxes.

 

[1_pointer]

Rosco - Is that true with the CWMU operations, also? I had no idea. Guess I better not plan on filming hunts on any public lands within boundaries of CWMUs. Thanks for that tidbit.

And people wonder why residents of states without these kind of programs are so leery about any proposal that resembles RFW/CWMU. Go figure.

That is true for CWMU's in Utah. CWMUs are their own hunting units, so the state can set the boundary's anywhere they want. I know of one CWMU that includes nearly 16,000 of BLM. You can still access the land, just not hunt the species that the CWMU can hunt unless you have a CWMU tag, which non-residents can't apply for only buy.

Sounds like that's pretty much what's going on in CO with the RFW program. At least in UT, the federal land management agency has NO say in if the lands are to be included or not. I doubt there is anything that the BLM can do in the case in CO either. The state owns and manages the wildlife...

 

[BRI]

Randy - FYI, It is also illegal to access Montana State DNRC lands (for hunting) by helicopter. I've gotten asked that question several times (I work for the DNRC). From what I've been told, under Montana DNRC Rec Access Laws helicpoters are not considered "legal public access".

 

[Big Fin]

Randy - FYI, It is also illegal to access Montana State DNRC lands (for hunting) by helicopter. I've gotten asked that question several times (I work for the DNRC). From what I've been told, under Montana DNRC Rec Access Laws helicpoters are not considered "legal public access".

Yeah, thanks for bringing up that point. But it is legal to access BLM via such, so long as you are using a licensed transporter. And once you legally access BLM, you can hunt the adjacent State Lands, if I understand correcting. Is that how you understand it?

And each state has different rules on their state land. Some day I should list those out as a "Sticky" to these threads so everyone can have access to them.

 

[BRI]

I'm not sure about that scenario but I'll ask the right person. I'm curious though if it would be similar to the BMA guidelines where a State parcel inside a BMA boundary can not be accessed from adjacent BLM ground unless permission to hunt the BMA has been obtained.