Colorado - 5-year Big Game Season Structure

[Zach]

Zach, my opinion is that the archery season (and thus all the other seasons, potentially) need to move later, not earlier. I killed a bull during the 3rd weekend in 2018 and it was 60+ degF at 10,000' elevation. Obviously, moving the season one week later would not have changed that situation, but I think if the warming trends continue, the concern about getting unspoiled meat off the mountain dictates moving the seasons later.

Valid point, but given this years weather you would have had to move the seasons back a month or more. Then 2 years ago up near Leadville we froze our butts in early Sept.

I'm not going to buy into the warming trend yet, and that is a topic for another day.

 

[Bigjay73]

and that is from both sides of the weapon choice.

Of course it is. I hunt both, so I just sit in my room and argue with myself haha

 

[Bigjay73]

Now, who gets the prime 3rd week?

And there lies the problem. I love ML hunting, but would leave it to archery. Then again, 3rd week isn't always the best week so....

 

[Zach]

And there lies the problem. I love ML hunting, but would leave it to archery. Then again, 3rd week isn't always the best week so....

True, but I think if you poll when most guys plan their hunts/time off from work, my guess is 3rd week in Sept is the most popular.


When you argue with yourself, do you win or lose?

 

[TheDudeAbides]

question #16 should stump a lot of folks here.......................

So many options to chose from: Dovahkiin, Attack Helicopter, Sharks with Laser Beams, etc

It was the most difficult question of the survey.

 

[vanish]

Apparently there is a BGSS meeting tonight 6:30 at the Hunter Ed building in Denver ( 6060 Broadway, Denver, CO 80216 ).

I'll be there.

 

[vanish]

Heavy focus on 3 questions:

1.) How much is Archery season ( W of I25 ) feeling crowded?
2.) How would you approach number 1, if you deemed it a problem?
3.) What are your desired start dates for deer and elk archery ( assuming the season length stays the same ).

I'll review the group impressions in my next post ( it seemed very heavily weighted towards CBA members. Maybe it was FOR CBA members and I missed that note? I'm a CBA member now anyway )

 

[COEngineer]

vanish, thanks for attending. I am interested to hear how the discussions went.

 

[vanish]

There were about 50 people at the meeting, I'd say. As I mentioned, there was a large proportion of CBA members, so there was certainly some bias there.

1.) How much is Archery season ( W of I25 ) feeling crowded?

Only 10% or so indicated they did not feel crowded in some fashion. Some indicated it was other archers, others stressed all the gun seasons going on, and others commented on just general recreational usage. Few expressed feeling crowded by muzzleloader hunters except on opening day.

2.) How would you approach number 1, if you deemed it a problem?

Most of the meeting was spent on this question.

CPW gave 7 options (let's see if I can remember them) and asked us to support two.
They said these weren't the only possibilities, but needed to start somewhere:
- All Limited ( like deer )
- Something to do with cow elk ( had very little support / discussion )
- OTC goes to bull only where population is down
- OTC with Caps
- Move the archery deer season start to Aug 15
- Something I cannot remember that almost nobody supported
- No Change

By far the largest support was for "move the archery deer season start to Aug 15". Not only would this be better for deer hunting, but it would potentially be less people in the woods come elk opener.

"No Change" got the second largest support, but it was not more than half.

"Limited" was a distant third. CPW surveys showed a very distinct opposed to this option, as well.

The discussion from here went to one topic that was not listed, applying one of the solutions for putting a cap or limit from above ( either limited or OTC with CAPs) on just non-residents. The OTC stats show it is almost 50/50 between resident and non-resident. There was an overwhelming cry to put a reasonable cap on NRs. CPW understood but tried to deflect the issue stating that was not within the scope of BGSS and would have to be handled during R vs NR Allocation ( a separate meeting ). Several of us called them out on this deflection, pointing out that if totally limited were chosen, there would be a de facto allocation of 65/35, and if that possibility was allowed in the discussion, the possibility of NR OTC with Caps should also be allowed.

3.) What are your desired start dates for deer and elk archery ( assuming the season length stays the same ).


The question was originally phrased "How do you feel about moving the archery start date to September 1?" without the distinction between deer and elk, and thus including moving the deer start date to September 1. Also, there was also some question on whether either start date change would lead to a reduced season length. It was assumed that the September 1 start date for elk would mean the season was still 30 days, but that wasn't directly specified in the question. The group requested to narrow the scope to assuming a 30 day elk season.

Since this was in direct contrast to the most popular option in question 2, the discussion changed. It was quite obvious that those who archery hunted deer did not want a later start date for deer, and those who only hunted elk did not care whether deer was changed in any direction and preferred the September 1 start date.

The was a sole voice who expressed the desire to hunt elk August 15 as he felt it was more fun during that time period as the elk are more exposed and less tied up with cows.

---------------

There were a few other proposals mentioned by CPW that were briefly discussed, the most notable being changing Moose to be season's choice, which had widespread support.

 

[rideold]

Thanks for the re-cap!

 

[JohnCushman]

Was anything discussed about archery/muzzleloader overlap and possibly changing the season dates?

 

[vanish]

I've really come around to the idea of going all limited. I believe the reason most people reject the idea is because they immediately think "specific unit with few tags" when they could easily set the tag to be good for all the current OTC units and set the number of tags to 44,000. By going all limited, this puts a limit on NRs due to minimum allocation requirements. By setting the tag numbers high, the tag could easily be drawn 4th choice or just picked up off the leftover list. It also most likely maintains current revenue but while at least giving residents a feeling of CPW doing something for them.

Some might say well then what's the point?

1.) It gives residents a short term preference over NRs (during the initial draw, there is a 65/35 cap. Once leftover its a free for all).
2.) It puts a future limit in place, acknowledging that more than XXX hunters in the woods during archery season is just not good for the hunters or CPWs mission. Too many hunters pushes the elk to private land just that much more easily.
3.) It puts more future control in the biologists hands. If they need to move a unit (group) out of that tag to specifically target population objectives, its easier to do so.

I don't think this is a popular opinion with CBA as it could be construed as limiting opportunity, but as long as the tag numbers stay high, I don't think its a concern.

I'm sure the Commission would be concerned about potential future lost revenue if archer numbers continue to climb.

 

[vanish]

Was anything discussed about archery/muzzleloader overlap and possibly changing the season dates?

Briefly and not directed by CPW. As I mentioned above, there were few people who felt muzzleloader / archery overlap was a problem.

One of the commissioners has floated the idea of an even earlier rifle bull elk season, and there were a few comments saying if they were going to do that, why not give the muzzleloaders that slot so they had the woods to "themselves" as far as elk go. There was also some question of whether the commissioner meant some time during archery season, and that there would be a revolt if there was a public land rifle bull elk season during the middle of archery.

 

[jvanhoy]

There were about 50 people at the meeting, I'd say. As I mentioned, there was a large proportion of CBA members, so there was certainly some bias there.

1.) How much is Archery season ( W of I25 ) feeling crowded?

Only 10% or so indicated they did not feel crowded in some fashion. Some indicated it was other archers, others stressed all the gun seasons going on, and others commented on just general recreational usage. Few expressed feeling crowded by muzzleloader hunters except on opening day.

2.) How would you approach number 1, if you deemed it a problem?

Most of the meeting was spent on this question.

CPW gave 7 options (let's see if I can remember them) and asked us to support two.
They said these weren't the only possibilities, but needed to start somewhere:
- All Limited ( like deer )
- Something to do with cow elk ( had very little support / discussion )
- OTC goes to bull only where population is down
- OTC with Caps
- Move the archery deer season start to Aug 15
- Something I cannot remember that almost nobody supported
- No Change

By far the largest support was for "move the archery deer season start to Aug 15". Not only would this be better for deer hunting, but it would potentially be less people in the woods come elk opener.

"No Change" got the second largest support, but it was not more than half.

"Limited" was a distant third. CPW surveys showed a very distinct opposed to this option, as well.

The discussion from here went to one topic that was not listed, applying one of the solutions for putting a cap or limit from above ( either limited or OTC with CAPs) on just non-residents. The OTC stats show it is almost 50/50 between resident and non-resident. There was an overwhelming cry to put a reasonable cap on NRs. CPW understood but tried to deflect the issue stating that was not within the scope of BGSS and would have to be handled during R vs NR Allocation ( a separate meeting ). Several of us called them out on this deflection, pointing out that if totally limited were chosen, there would be a de facto allocation of 65/35, and if that possibility was allowed in the discussion, the possibility of NR OTC with Caps should also be allowed.

3.) What are your desired start dates for deer and elk archery ( assuming the season length stays the same ).


The question was originally phrased "How do you feel about moving the archery start date to September 1?" without the distinction between deer and elk, and thus including moving the deer start date to September 1. Also, there was also some question on whether either start date change would lead to a reduced season length. It was assumed that the September 1 start date for elk would mean the season was still 30 days, but that wasn't directly specified in the question. The group requested to narrow the scope to assuming a 30 day elk season.

Since this was in direct contrast to the most popular option in question 2, the discussion changed. It was quite obvious that those who archery hunted deer did not want a later start date for deer, and those who only hunted elk did not care whether deer was changed in any direction and preferred the September 1 start date.

The was a sole voice who expressed the desire to hunt elk August 15 as he felt it was more fun during that time period as the elk are more exposed and less tied up with cows.

---------------

There were a few other proposals mentioned by CPW that were briefly discussed, the most notable being changing Moose to be season's choice, which had widespread support.

If they move the deer opener up will it still run till the end of archery elk? The reason I ask is my dad is older and only deer hunts and I always plan our trip for the last week so I hit the rut good elk hunting.

 

[Zach]

I'm guessing there was no recording of this meeting?

I don't even recall seeing it advertised, not that I could have made it. And no surprise that CBA has the biggest presence at the Denver meetings.

 

[vanish]

No mention of deer season length. That was one complaint many of us had; the answers to questiins had many different interpretations, or were so dependent uoon other unresolved questions. A longer deer season? Starting early but still 30 days? A brand new early deer season option that only lasts ~10 days ( different tag ) ?

No recording of the meeting. I also did not see it advertised. Only heard about it via a CBA post on another site.

To be clear, there were no decisons made, just a discussion.

 

[jvanhoy]

Ok thanks.

 

[SandyCreek]

I want the important things like different vest colors for deer and elk hunters..so i can identify the competition

 

[jlmatthew]

Why not just do like Wyoming or Montana. OTC for residents only and a cap on nonresidents.

Of course thats just dreaming. The CPW does nothing unless it brings in $$$$$. Cant wait to see the amount they bring in this year with the new increased tag fee's and the requirement you must buy a smallgame license on top of the tag.

 

[Buffs35]

I'm fine with the OTC tags, I just wish they would rotate some units out of OTC. For example, for 3 years they could make the northern most OTC units limited draw (something like Units 3, 4, 5, 6, 11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 131, 161, 171, 211, 214, 301, 441 - I'm sure I'm missing a few). Then put them back in the OTC pot and remove all units south of Steamboat and Meeker down to I-70 for 3 years. Then keep moving south, and start all over again after the southern OTC units have been rested. Might take 12 to 15 years to rotate through all the OTC units, but 75% or more of the units would remain OTC in a given year. Might be good for the overall population, and it might make some of these units more productive and enjoyable. Reminds me of when we rotate crop fields.