CO CPW Draw Process Working Group

[Dsnow9]

Adjust the secondary draw to allow equal opportunity for all ages, or allocate 50% to youth.

Fix the leftover rat race by assigning random numbers to those who log in 30 min to the list going live.

Change MGS to allow an opportunity with 0 points. Keep as a bonus point draw system.

Lose your points when you draw any “A” tag regardless of what draw it is.

80/20 resident allocation regardless of the amount of points it took.

Why allow a zero point opportunity for msg? I feel like that is the only part of our system that is pretty good. I feel like the 3 min makes sure people are at least a little serious about it.

When I was hunting my nanny tag I was trying to help out one of the billy hunters that drew with three. He hunted three half days and did not even see a goat. Small sample size but I don’t think he realized what tag he actually had in his pocket.

 

[Deleted member 52098]

90/10 resident to NR.

Leave MSG alone

Pay upfront for tags, incl MSG. Would reduce using CO as last resort

 

[perma]

Why allow a zero point opportunity for msg? I feel like that is the only part of our system that is pretty good. I feel like the 3 min makes sure people are at least a little serious about it.

When I was hunting my nanny tag I was trying to help out one of the billy hunters that drew with three. He hunted three half days and did not even see a goat. Small sample size but I don’t think he realized what tag he actually had in his pocket.

It’s really more of a nonres gripe. If you were to go for all 3, you’re not considered in the draw until year 3 and you’re $1000 in. Not so much of a money issue for me personally, but just sucks that I’m not considered for apps, and is a money issue for others maybe. I know res are subject to the same, just feels like a money grab.

 

[Deleted member 52847]

- Use up any PP on any "List A" license, no matter if purchased in Primary, Secondary, or leftover/reissue process.

- Pay up front for MGS

- 80/20 Res/NonRes ratio across the board

- Secondary draw to 50% youth pref

 

[Buschy]

•90/10 res to non-res allocation across the board (align with other western states)

•eliminate archery, 2nd season, and 3rd season OTC elk tags for NR (raise res fees, if necessary, to offset lost revenue)

•Adjust the secondary draw to allow equal opportunity for all ages, or allocate 50% for youth

•Pay up front for all tags, including MGS

•Return to the previous, random Leftover List system.

 

[TheGreek]

If you have ideas for the draw process working group to consider, bullet point them below. No Tolstoys, I don't want to have to use this pic more than once.

View attachment 295698

@Oak did you get selected?

 

[TheGreek]

-pay up front for tag cost when applying
-scrap ability to return tag unless for medical reasons/death in family/military deployment
-weekly random lottery for reissued tags, apply Tuesday evening after weekly reissue preview list comes out and random lottery is run Wednesday
- any A-list tag uses your points regardless of how/when it’s drawn
-as a long time resident who was then a NR and is back to being a resident, I’m not sure 90/10 is necessary across the board
-no reason to change MSG
-scrap 100% youth preference in secondary draw, maybe 50% of tags in secondary draw go to resident youth

 

[TOGIE]

•90/10 res to non-res allocation across the board (align with other western states)

•eliminate archery, 2nd season, and 3rd season OTC elk tags for NR (raise res fees, if necessary, to offset lost revenue)

•Adjust the secondary draw to allow equal opportunity for all ages, or allocate 50% for youth

•Pay up front for all tags, including MGS

•Return to the previous, random Leftover List system.

I’m just gonna +1 this one for now

 

[vanish]

They're never going back to pay up front. It is very inefficient. Don't waste your keystrokes.

 

[Bigjay73]

Az charges $135 for resident elk, and after all of the complaining after they raised it to that amount over a decade ago, the amount of residents apps hasn't dropped. We need to raise resident tag prices in Co and delete OTC for NRs in many instances, enough is enough. Maybe we can have a hybrid resident license fee, stay the same for draw tags, significant rise for resident otc tags.
Really wish Wllm was around for this discussion

 

[BoulderBulls]

Reissue/secondary/leftover tags allocated to r/nr based off returns or based off the allocation set out before original draw.

I really don't mind the current Reissue process or folks being able to keep points when snagging tags. I don't think anything short of completely doing away with pp will come close to fixing point creep whatsoever.

That being said a weekly lottery, go ahead charge $10 R $50 nr per week to get a chance at a reissue tag, but again it needs the allocation to be corrected r v nr

 

[tormenter]

They're never going back to pay up front. It is very inefficient. Don't waste your keystrokes.

I sat in a meeting last year - this is definitely not on the table as they want to promote as many hunters as possible to apply and not be restricted by the upfront costs - aka a father/mother hunter with several upcoming hunter offspring and not being able to afford the upfront fees of paying in full for license they may not get for the whole family and having to select a couple of the members to apply for. This was the actual example explained to me in a focus group.

 

[TheGreek]

I got the rejection email as expected.

 

[Oak]

@Oak did you get selected?

Yes, along with one other HTer I'm aware of.

Based on the information that was available prior to the application period, I believe this group will be asked to take on 4-5 high level issues. Recall that the genesis of this group was the most recent Commission discussion about preference point banking, so I'm certain that will be on the list. Other potential topics (my opinion only, and not all inclusive):

• Primary/secondary/leftover/reissue processes and preference point use
• License surrender process (preference points)
• Changes to M/S/G weighted point system

License fee adjustments beyond CPI take legislation and will likely not be discussed. CPW currently has a revenue surplus, and fee increases made solely to reduce participation in the draw are not going to be considered by the agency. Fee adjustments to offset revenue loss from eliminating OTC could potentially be considered, but the legislature and Commission are pretty sensitive to resident fee increases.

Eliminating the need to pay for licenses up front was a time and cost saving move. They will never go back to up front fees.

My perception is that further adjusting the R/NR quota will not be considered. We just went through two rounds of that, and the Commission increased the R quota beyond CPW staff recommendations.

I'd love to hear draw process ideas people might have that are not listed above.

 

[Dsnow9]

Yes, along with one other HTer I'm aware of.

Based on the information that was available prior to the application period, I believe this group will be asked to take on 4-5 high level issues. Recall that the genesis of this group was the most recent Commission discussion about preference point banking, so I'm certain that will be on the list. Other potential topics (my opinion only, and not all inclusive):

• Primary/secondary/leftover/reissue processes and preference point use
• License surrender process (preference points)
• Changes to M/S/G weighted point system

License fee adjustments beyond CPI take legislation and will likely not be discussed. CPW currently has a revenue surplus, and fee increases made solely to reduce participation in the draw are not going to be considered by the agency. Fee adjustments to offset revenue loss from eliminating OTC could potentially be considered, but the legislature and Commission are pretty sensitive to resident fee increases.

Eliminating the need to pay for licenses up front was a time and cost saving move. They will never go back to up front fees.

My perception is that further adjusting the R/NR quota will not be considered. We just went through two rounds of that, and the Commission increased the R quota beyond CPW staff recommendations.

I'd love to hear draw process ideas people might have that are not listed above.

I personally like to always have a chance like the Wyoming model

 

[TOGIE]

agree with dsnow, i'd like to see better traction on giving everybody a chance at every tag, either through a side random draw on every limited hunt code or something like converting every tag that takes more than 5 points to a weighted MSG style draw

 

[Buffs35]

Yes, along with one other HTer I'm aware of.

Based on the information that was available prior to the application period, I believe this group will be asked to take on 4-5 high level issues. Recall that the genesis of this group was the most recent Commission discussion about preference point banking, so I'm certain that will be on the list. Other potential topics (my opinion only, and not all inclusive):

• Primary/secondary/leftover/reissue processes and preference point use
• License surrender process (preference points)
• Changes to M/S/G weighted point system

License fee adjustments beyond CPI take legislation and will likely not be discussed. CPW currently has a revenue surplus, and fee increases made solely to reduce participation in the draw are not going to be considered by the agency. Fee adjustments to offset revenue loss from eliminating OTC could potentially be considered, but the legislature and Commission are pretty sensitive to resident fee increases.

Eliminating the need to pay for licenses up front was a time and cost saving move. They will never go back to up front fees.

My perception is that further adjusting the R/NR quota will not be considered. We just went through two rounds of that, and the Commission increased the R quota beyond CPW staff recommendations.

I'd love to hear draw process ideas people might have that are not listed above.

Glad you were selected.

As for preference points, I would make preference points only available for purchase after the last season closes. Hunters are only eligible to purchase a point if they applied in the primary draw and didn't draw a tag in primary or secondary draws (doesn't matter what choice). If you hunt, you can't also acquire a point. I am doubtful this would work because selling points is so profitable.

Also, reduce/eliminate ability to turn in tags with points returned. Maybe lose 25% to 50% of points used if you return the tag.

As for draw process:
All A tags take all points, doesn't matter what choice.
Secondary draw uses points same as primary draw.

I look forward to how this plays out.

 

[vanish]

All you people suggesting all A tags take points ... What are you going to do with all the longshot tags that people only buy because they have no better option?

Those tags made the leftover list because people didn't want them even in their top 4 choices. They'll go unsold if they require your points to purchase, which is not in CPW's favor.

 

[winmag]

Those tags made the leftover list because people didn't want them even in their top 4 choices. They'll go unsold if they require your points to purchase, which is not in CPW's favor.

Then CPW should consider making those B list tags to make them more attractive to hunters.

 

[Dsnow9]

All you people suggesting all A tags take points ... What are you going to do with all the longshot tags that people only buy because they have no better option?

Those tags made the leftover list because people didn't want them even in their top 4 choices. They'll go unsold if they require your points to purchase, which is not in CPW's favor.

Only time will tell. I have seen an A cow tag go for 2-3 more points than the either sex tag in the same unit in the same season. The tags will sell