Caribou Gear

CO CPW Draw Process Working Group

No, it's not better. It's actually a bit ridiculous.
Man, your bitching and moaning is never ending. You never have a single productive contribution to any conversation. It’s just more crying about your lot in life as a NR. It’s time to accept the fact that your opportunities are dwindling fast. Thrashing around like a toddler is not going to change anything.
 
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Man, your bitching and moaning is never ending. You never have a single productive contribution to any conversation. It’s just more crying about your lot in life as a NR. It’s time to accept the fact that your opportunities are dwindling fast. Trashing around like a toddler is not going to change anything.

And what suggestions are you bringing to this conversation other than BITCHING about me bitching? Seriously, do you have any suggestions? Let's hear them!

I have contributed about 50X more to this conversation than you have so far.
 
And what suggestions are you bringing to this conversation other than BITCHING about me bitching? Seriously, do you have any suggestions? Let's hear them!

I have contributed about 50X more to this conversation than you have so far.
Yes, the residents should have preference for every aspect of the process including the primary draw, secondary draw, returns, and leftovers. You’ve gotten greedy with how good CO has treated NRs to date and are freaking out on a public forum as the state shifts the priority back towards the residents, where it should always have been. Desperation is not endearing.
 
Applying the resident/non-resident allocation through the secondary draw is a bunch of NONSENSE. I can't believe that is even being discussed.

If residents truly want a tag, they can EASILY get a tag in choices 1-4 where they already have preference.

The only reason to allow a resident/non-resident allocation through the secondary draw is so the residents can continue to build points and still get tags.

THIS IDEA SOLVES NOTHING and would continue to introduce point creep into the future draws.
How do they do Resident/NonResidents allocations in your state? Always complaining about Colorado.

Yes Colorado is a clown show, but I want to hunt where I live just like I'm sure you do. What state are you in?
 
How do they do Resident/NonResidents allocations in your state? Always complaining about Colorado.

Yes Colorado is a clown show, but I want to hunt where I live just like I'm sure you do. What state are you in?
Now you're starting to understand what Wyoming Residents have been going through.

The place @Mallardsx2 lives in is somewhere between denial and fantasyland.

These NR vacationers seem to think they should have more to say about our hunting, wildlife, and tag allocations, than we do as Residents. Tell them what I do, don't like it, stay home and hunt.

I hope Colorado makes needed changes that favor the Residents there, let the NR's whine and carry on all they want.
 
Applying the resident/non-resident allocation through the secondary draw is a bunch of NONSENSE. I can't believe that is even being discussed.

If residents truly want a tag, they can EASILY get a tag in choices 1-4 where they already have preference.

The only reason to allow a resident/non-resident allocation through the secondary draw is so the residents can continue to build points and still get tags.

THIS IDEA SOLVES NOTHING and would continue to introduce point creep into the future draws.
I think they didn't go far enough the nr tags are theirs and residents tags are theirs what ever those numbers are they should stay the same and if there are resident tags still leftover at the start of season oh well.

not a single resident allocated tag should ever go to a nr
 
Maybe I’m in the minority but I think the discussion around feedback was 100% accurate. Most of the feedback disliked the recommendations put forward because they did exactly what the working group intended. They attempted to make people use points and give everyone a chance at any tag.

I also like the MGS recommendations above. I think making someone choose between the OIL species improves odds in a smart way. Make people prioritize, while allowing them to still build points for all MGS. I also like the support for keeping the barrier of entry without over priorizing seniority.
 
Recommendations were advanced on split votes to:
  • Add RM bighorn ram and all mountain goat harvest to OIL moving forward (not retroactive) to existing OIL for desert sheep and bull moose. (10-3 vote)
  • Allow applicants to apply for a hunt code for only one species among RM bighorn, desert bighorn, moose, and mountain goat. Applicants could purchase points for all species they don't apply for (excluding desert bighorn). (8-5 vote)
Why not let folks apply for MSG tags, all three in a given year, BUT can only draw one. If pull one of the tags, your other apps are relegated to earning a point only if bought the point option. All three are so hard to draw, folks should be able to apply each year, just not draw more than one at a time (like too many guys, including me, have done.)

OIL for rocky and goat, if kill? Sure why not. After 3 Colo ram tags, a ewe tag and four moose tags, 1 bull, 3 cow…Why do they let me and many others similarly situated back in the draw?!
 
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What not let folks apply for MSG tags, all three in a given year, BUT can only draw one. If pull one of the tags, your other apps are relegated to earning a point only if bought the point option. All three are so hard to draw, folks should be able to apply each year, just not draw more than one at a time (like to many guys, including me, have done.)

OIL for rocky and goat, if kill? Sure why not.
I agree.
 
What not let folks apply for MSG tags, all three in a given year, BUT can only draw one. If pull one of the tags, your other apps are relegated to earning a point only if bought the point option. All three are so hard to draw, folks should be able to apply each year, just not draw more than one at a time (like to many guys, including me, have done.)

OIL for rocky and goat, if kill? Sure why not.
IMG_2898.png
 
If CPW or the people on the working group want advocates for wildlife and hunting, Colorado would be better off letting them chase the dream. The OIL change will improve draw odds by 0.0001% (maybe even less) and will likely prevent a good many people from giving any feces after they get their ram/goat. Advocates need a carrot (even the most miniscule chance at a carrot) beyond pure altruism. Make the wait 10 years after you draw a tag, or 20, I don't care, but OIL doesn't really solve a problem beyond hurt feelings; the people not drawing a sheep tag with 1000 applicants per tag still aren't drawing that tag.
 
If CPW or the people on the working group want advocates for wildlife and hunting, Colorado would be better off letting them chase the dream. The OIL change will improve draw odds by 0.0001% (maybe even less) and will likely prevent a good many people from giving any feces after they get their ram/goat. Advocates need a carrot (even the most miniscule chance at a carrot) beyond pure altruism. Make the wait 10 years after you draw a tag, or 20, I don't care, but OIL doesn't really solve a problem beyond hurt feelings; the people not drawing a sheep tag with 1000 applicants per tag still aren't drawing that tag.
The recommendation to go OIL if you shoot a ram or goat specifically excludes auction and raffle tags, so there is still a carrot for folks that only GAF if they have a chance to shoot another one.

I agree that going OIL for draw tags won’t increase the odds much, but the other recommendation of limiting each person to only being able to apply for one species per year will remove thousands of applicants which will have a positive affect on draw odds. This really sucks for folks with lots of points for multiple species, but it will increase the odds of any one person drawing.
 
Recommendations were advanced on split votes to:
  • Add RM bighorn ram and all mountain goat harvest to OIL moving forward (not retroactive) to existing OIL for desert sheep and bull moose. (10-3 vote)
  • Allow applicants to apply for a hunt code for only one species among RM bighorn, desert bighorn, moose, and mountain goat. Applicants could purchase points for all species they don't apply for (excluding desert bighorn). (8-5 vote)
I agree 100 percent that all those species should be OIL. I know of people that have drawn 3 rocky tags and a desert in their lifetime in Colorado while others die without even experiencing one. I think if your successful you’re out.
 
I agree 100 percent that all those species should be OIL. I know of people that have drawn 3 rocky tags and a desert in their lifetime in Colorado while others die without even experiencing one. I think if your successful you’re out.
Not trying to call you out specifically, but I get tired of hearing this argument. I guess the appearance of fairness is important to people, despite potential negative unintended consequences of that policy.

I didn't win the powerball but there are people that have won it multiple times. Should I complain?

Want to draw faster? Don't apply for the fairytale high trophy potential rifle units with a quota of 1 ram tag. Apply for archery. Apply for lower success units. Apply for lower trophy potential units. I know a couple people that have drawn multiple rocky tags in Colorado and they have something in common; they're archery hunters.

I have no sympathy for people with 20+ points not drawing their fairytale tag when they could apply for different units with different weapons and have significantly better odds, maybe even drawing multiple times themselves in that time.
 
If CPW or the people on the working group want advocates for wildlife and hunting, Colorado would be better off letting them chase the dream. The OIL change will improve draw odds by 0.0001% (maybe even less) and will likely prevent a good many people from giving any feces after they get their ram/goat. Advocates need a carrot (even the most miniscule chance at a carrot) beyond pure altruism. Make the wait 10 years after you draw a tag, or 20, I don't care, but OIL doesn't really solve a problem beyond hurt feelings; the people not drawing a sheep tag with 1000 applicants per tag still aren't drawing that tag.
I don’t know if I agree with this if you care about the animals and actually put personal time, effort and resources towards It those individuals aren’t going to quit because they drew a tag because they probably always expected to never draw and were still doing those actions and efforts.

And as far as sheep go there is more interest growing in hunting them per year then the amount of people that draw and loose interest. Typically some draws a sheep tag and experiences it for there first time and that grows there interest in helping or learning more which then carries on for many years past the point of having the tag in you’re hand.
 
Not trying to call you out specifically, but I get tired of hearing this argument. I guess the appearance of fairness is important to people, despite potential negative unintended consequences of that policy.

I didn't win the powerball but there are people that have won it multiple times. Should I complain?

Want to draw faster? Don't apply for the fairytale high trophy potential rifle units with a quota of 1 ram tag. Apply for archery. Apply for lower success units. Apply for lower trophy potential units. I know a couple people that have drawn multiple rocky tags in Colorado and they have something in common; they're archery hunters.

I have no sympathy for people with 20+ points not drawing their fairytale tag when they could apply for different units with different weapons and have significantly better odds, maybe even drawing multiple times themselves in that time.
I just think that sheep hunting in particular is so rare that as many people as possible should experience it and the best way to do that is by trying to spread the wealth. I do apply for the best odd hunts with the worst odds of killing a ram, goat, moose. Let me guess you have either drawn a sheep tag and are hoping to draw another or your sitting in a lot of points and know you will likely draw in the coming years and don’t want to loose your chance to jump back in for round two?
 
Not trying to call you out specifically, but I get tired of hearing this argument. I guess the appearance of fairness is important to people, despite potential negative unintended consequences of that policy.

I didn't win the powerball but there are people that have won it multiple times. Should I complain?

Want to draw faster? Don't apply for the fairytale high trophy potential rifle units with a quota of 1 ram tag. Apply for archery. Apply for lower success units. Apply for lower trophy potential units. I know a couple people that have drawn multiple rocky tags in Colorado and they have something in common; they're archery hunters.

I have no sympathy for people with 20+ points not drawing their fairytale tag when they could apply for different units with different weapons and have significantly better odds, maybe even drawing multiple times themselves in that time.
I also don’t think it’s about being fair or equal I think it’s the fact that it’s a limit resource and so it’s trying to passed around to everyone as well as the agency is trying to do there job by getting there way through the system.
 
Let me guess you have either drawn a sheep tag and are hoping to draw another or your sitting in a lot of points and know you will likely draw in the coming years and don’t want to loose your chance to jump back in for round two?
Yes I have drawn a sheep tag in Colorado. I drew the tag with the worst success rate in the state and *magically* it didn't take that long. I ate my tag.

I also hunt the unlimited areas in Montana every year. Another opportunity that is available to all those poor pitiful max point holders that only apply for the hardest to draw tags but never draw.

There are ways to hunt sheep, people just don't want to change their behavior to hunt them. People just want to draw their tag and complain.
 
Yes I have drawn a sheep tag in Colorado. I drew the tag with the worst success rate in the state and *magically* it didn't take that long. I ate my tag.

I also hunt the unlimited areas in Montana every year. Another opportunity that is available to all those poor pitiful max point holders that only apply for the hardest to draw tags but never draw.

There are ways to hunt sheep, people just don't want to change their behavior to hunt them. People just want to draw their tag and complain.
I agree and understand that but from a point of view of the CPW commission and department they don’t care and dont care about Montana unlimited opportunity they care about showing effort to push people through the system and everyone having a fair shake. I mean at the end of the day we are both welcomed to our point of views and interest and we don’t have to agree but it doesn’t matter it’s in the hands of the commission and there choice.
 
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