Chamber Empty or Loaded

[BuzzH]

What weapons were those? This whole discussion aside, those are defective firearms that no one should be using at all, regardless of what condition they're carried in.

Everything mechanical will fail...fact.

 

[OntarioHunter]

This thread is getting muddy. The OP asked about hot carry in the woods. The OP also said he came from a combat background. Different world. My dad always said to hunt like the animals would shoot back. Well, they don't. He was wrong.

I've had an accidental discharge and I'll admit it. My AD came at the end of a chain of events. I could have broken the chain at a number of points. These things are rarely black and white. In my case, the rifle went off and no one was hit by the bullet. No matter, lawyers are drawn to the sound of an accidental discharge.

There really isn't any debate about gun handling practice at the trailhead or in the truck. I do not trust safeties. I do not trust other hunters. I do not trust MYSELF. Every oopskaboom I've ever witnessed was with an "unloaded" weapon. Mine too. All these were classic, "My Hunter's Ed instructor told me never to do that." scenarios. I will be an ass an make everyone around me keep their actions open. Easier to simply hunt alone.

I doubt I could offer any gun handling advice on here that we haven't already heard from our Hunter's Ed or BCT instructors. You CAN shoot yourself with a rifle. I have looked down my own bore a time or two after a fall. Others' bores far too often just standing around.

To answer the OP question about hot carry.

I'm in the 96% club. Only hot when still-hunting ALONE in dark timber. Only with guns equipped with safeties that block the hammer or striker. I have a range drill I practice to keep it muscle memory. Shoulder weapon, acquire target, release safety, move finger to trigger, shoot. I retired my tang safety rifles because it is too easy to get in the habit of releasing the safety on the way up to shoulder the rifle. Don't we all do it that way with our shotguns?

I have missed opportunities because I did not have a round chambered, I have never lost any sleep over it. Part of this is the, "5 stages in the life of a hunter." thing. At this point, the kill is less important than it used to be. Safety more important than it used to be.

Very well put. Like you, I almost always hunt alone. I'm a stalker. Most of my animals are taken at close range in a hurry. Many on the fly. I tracked my second bull moose to his bed in alders so thick I couldn't see the cow standing just ahead of him. Right before dark and I shot him through the heart. The 180 gr slug went into him sideways. Range was less than fifty feet. If I had to chamber a round there would have been no shot. One step and he would be out of sight. He was almost out of sight when I shot him. I have a 49" bull elk also stalked to within 50 yards, shot in the back of the head on the move. No time to chamber a round and give myself away. I hunt big game like I hunt uplands: on the move in close pursuit. And alone. For those who want to hike to the top of a mountain and shoot ridge to ridge, an unloaded gun works fine ... because most of the time it never needs to work. Stalking is different. I can expect that I will invariably not know when my gun needs to go to work until a split second beforehand. Being fully prepared to act quickly is just part of that kind of hunting. An empty chamber is not being fully prepared to act quickly.

If I was part of a drive (and I never will be), I'm sure I'd not be too excited about guys walking next to me with rounds chambered. Yes, I see it happening all the time on the South Dakota pheasant hunt videos but I know I would NEVER be into that scene. Didn't take Dick Cheney's screwup to teach me that lesson. Actually, in those scenarios I'm not sure it wouldn't be more dangerous requiring adjacent hunters load their chambers to get off a shot, especially inexperienced (or drunk) hunters. After fifty years of doing this I can (and have) reloaded quickly and safely enough to put followup shots into a hit animal or drop an extra bird. But someone who's never seen an elk or moose ... yeah, I really don't want to be standing next to them if they're fumbling to get the gun open and loaded, especially if it's only a two-position safety bolt action rifle. My African PH lets me carry with a round in the chamber but not clients whose experience is doubtful (or in many cases totally absent - no experience or hunters ed required to hunt South Africa but of course hunters cannot DIY - PH is standing right there).

If one is inclined to hunt with a round in the chamber (and I don't advise against it, especially stalking alone), I strongly suggest the following: 1) Make sure your gun's safety is flawless. With it cocked on an empty chamber, thump the butt on a hard concrete floor several times to see if the safety let's go. Remove the recoil pad first if your gun has one. The ground will not be covered with foam rubber if you drop your rifle. 2) Check your gun's sling. I also had a sling come apart (twice!) and that can be a scary situation. Fortunately, when it happened to me I had sling in hand so the gun didn't come entirely loose when the sling let go. Would have been a much worse scenario if I'd had it slung across my body to free both hands. Some slings are held together with Chicago screws. These are dangerous! The sling twists on your shoulder as you move or switch shoulders. Every time it twists, the Chicago screw can twist and unscrew. Take the screw apart and use a peen or pair of vicegrips to bugger the male threads about half way up so the screw goes together tight and can't back out. Don't scrimp on the sling swivels. Good ones are not grossly expensive. Spend the money. Especially important if you decide on detachable type. Some of those are an accident waiting to happen. Been there!

 

[Blue Rope]

Everything mechanical will fail...fact.

No. Everything mechanical CAN fail, not will. A gun that fires without the trigger being pulled should immediately be taken out of service until it's fixed.

 

[CowboyLeroy]

Come on now what?

126 deer (coues, whitetail, mule deer, sitka blacktail), 80 elk, 79 pronghorn, 5 bears, 4 wild sheep, 3 moose, 1 oryx, 1 muskox, 1 mountain lion, and 1 mountain goat.

Whatever that adds up to...a few hundred I reckon.

Just for curiosities sake, how many years did it take to do that?

 

[BuzzH]

No. Everything mechanical CAN fail, not will. A gun that fires without the trigger being pulled should immediately be taken out of service until it's fixed.

Bullchit...everything mechanical fails, not if, just when and how bad.

You live in fantasyland.

If nothing mechanical fails then why do mechanics exist? Why do we have gunsmiths?

Good grief.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Very well put. Like you, I almost always hunt alone. I'm a stalker. Most of my animals are taken at close range in a hurry. Many on the fly. I tracked my second bull moose to his bed in alders so thick I couldn't see the cow standing just ahead of him. Right before dark and I shot him through the heart. The 180 gr slug went into him sideways. Range was less than fifty feet. If I had to chamber a round there would have been no shot. One step and he would be out of sight. He was almost out of sight when I shot him. I have a 49" bull elk also stalked to within 50 yards, shot in the back of the head on the move. No time to chamber a round and give myself away. I hunt big game like I hunt uplands: on the move in close pursuit. And alone. For those who want to hike to the top of a mountain and shoot ridge to ridge, an unloaded gun works fine ... because most of the time it never needs to work. Stalking is different. I can expect that I will invariably not know when my gun needs to go to work until a split second beforehand. Being fully prepared to act quickly is just part of that kind of hunting. An empty chamber is not being fully prepared to act quickly.

If I was part of a drive (and I never will be), I'm sure I'd not be too excited about guys walking next to me with rounds chambered. Yes, I see it happening all the time on the South Dakota pheasant hunt videos but I know I would NEVER be into that scene. Didn't take Dick Cheney's screwup to teach me that lesson. Actually, in those scenarios I'm not sure it wouldn't be more dangerous requiring adjacent hunters load their chambers to get off a shot, especially inexperienced (or drunk) hunters. After fifty years of doing this I can (and have) reloaded quickly and safely enough to put followup shots into a hit animal or an extra bird. But someone who's never seen an elk or moose ... yeah, I really don't want to be standing next to them if they're fumbling to get the gun open and loaded, especially if it's only a two-position safety bolt action rifle. My African PH lets me carry with a round in the chamber but not clients whose experience is doubtful (or in many cases totally absent - no experience or hunters ed required to hunt South Africa but of course hunters cannot DIY - PH is standing right there).

If one is inclined to hunt with a round in the chamber (and I don't advise against it, especially stalking alone), I strongly suggest the following: 1) Make sure your gun's safety is flawless. With it cocked on an empty chamber, thump the butt on a hard concrete floor several times to see if the safety let's go. Remove the recoil pad first if your gun has one. The ground will not be covered with foam rubber if you drop your rifle. 2) Check your gun's sling. I also had a sling come apart (twice!) and that can be a scary situation. Fortunately, when it happened to me I had sling in hand so the gun didn't come entirely loose when the sling let go. Would have been a much worse scenario if I'd had it slung across my body to free both hands. Some slings are held together with Chicago screws. These are dangerous! The sling swivels on your shoulder as you move or switch shoulders. Every time it moves, the Chicago screw can unscrew. Take the screw apart and use a peen or pair of vicegrips to bugger the male threads about half way up so the screw goes together tight and can't back out. Don't scrimp on the sling swivels. Good ones are not grossly expensive. Spend the money. Especially important if you decide on detachable type. Some of those are an accident waiting to happen. Been there!

Post penalty for excessive employment of verbiage! Go to the box!

 

[Blue Rope]

Bullchit...everything mechanical fails, not if, just when.

You live in fantasyland.

I'm not sure exactly what you're arguing for. Do you disagree that the weapons you mentioned in your post should not be used till they're repaired? Are you saying that a person should continue to use a weapon that will fire without the trigger being pulled? Yes, any mechanical device will eventually fail if used enough. Only a tiny fraction of decent quality, well maintained hunting rifles will be used enough in a person's lifetime to get to that point, and if they do, it's very unlikely that non-trigger initiated discharges will be the first failure.

 

[BuzzH]

Just for curiosities sake, how many years did it take to do that?

I started hunting in 1979.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I have a friend who walks with his O/U broken open with two in the chute. I haven't hunted with him in years, but he always bagged more birds than me and my chambered Rem 870.

His O/U is a lot looser than my Citori! That rooster would be in the next zip code by the time I closed its action.

I simply cannot imagine carrying a broken open O/U in the field any distance at all unless it was unloaded and over the shoulder. Just standing at the trap line with one broken is so awkward most everyone rests the muzzle on the toe of their shoe (some shoes are specially designed for this) while waiting for their turn to load and shoot. And FYI many if not most of the top end trap guns have NO safety.

 

[BuzzH]

I'm not sure exactly what you're arguing for. Do you disagree that the weapons you mentioned in your post should not be used till they're repaired? Are you saying that a person should continue to use a weapon that will fire without the trigger being pulled? Yes, any mechanical device will eventually fail if used enough. Only a tiny fraction of decent quality, well maintained hunting rifles will be used enough in a person's lifetime to get to that point, and if they do, it's very unlikely that non-trigger initiated discharges will be the first failure.

Another steaming load of crap.

I've been around enough firearms in my life, and know enough about mechanics, to know parts are assembled wrong, parts are defective, and things wear out faster than expected for all kinds of reasons.

I also know that people are lazy and do not take proper care of vehicles, firearms, lawn mowers, etc.

Yet, they put all their trust in mechanical devices and then act surprised when they fail.

I really don't care if people choose to hunt with a round chambered, with the safety off, using a firearm they haven't taken proper care of.

It's just ignorant to do and without question increases the likelihood of something bad happening.

Trusting anything mechanical, in particular with your life, has risk.

Carry on all you want, you won't change my mind.

 

[Blue Rope]

Another steaming load of crap.

I've been around enough firearms in my life, and know enough about mechanics, to know parts are assembled wrong, parts are defective, and things wear out faster than expected for all kinds of reasons.

I also know that people are lazy and do not take proper care of vehicles, firearms, lawn mowers, etc.

Yet, they put all their trust in mechanical devices and then act surprised when they fail.

I really don't care if people choose to hunt with a round chambered, with the safety off, using a firearm they haven't taken proper care of.

It's just ignorant to do and without question increases the likelihood of something bad happening.

Trusting anything mechanical, in particular with your life, has risk.

Carry on all you want, you won't change my mind.

Not trying to change your mind. I'm trying to figure out what you're saying. Do you, or do you not think that a gun that will discharge without the trigger being pulled should be taken out of service?

 

[gouch]

I grew up hunting with people who always had a loaded gun while hunting but a round was never chambered in camp or in the truck. So that is how I hunted until I had missed two deer and one really nice bear because I had forgotten to chamber a round after leaving the truck or camp. I figured out that it worked better to leave the gun unloaded and get in the habit of chambering a round right before each shot instead of assuming the gun was loaded. I never really thought to much about it being that unsafe to carry a loaded gun with the safety on and still do hunt birds with a fully loaded shotgun.

 

[BuzzH]

Unless you have an older model 700 and a little bad luck.

Oh no, according to blue rope a properly taken care of 700 should remain mechanically sound forever...

 

[44hunter45]

His O/U is a lot looser than my Citori! That rooster would be in the next zip code by the time I closed its action.

I simply cannot imagine carrying a broken open O/U in the field any distance at all unless it was unloaded and over the shoulder. Just standing at the trap line with one broken is so awkward most everyone rests the muzzle on the toe of their shoe (some shoes are specially designed for this) while waiting for their turn to load and shoot. And FYI many if not most of the top end trap guns have NO safety.

I know squat about O/U shotguns. My break-open experience ends at the Iver Johnson Champion.

 

[BuzzH]

Not trying to change your mind. I'm trying to figure out what you're saying. Do you, or do you not think that a gun that will discharge without the trigger being pulled should be taken out of service?

How do you know it's defective until it is?

The only reason you would know it was defective is when the firearm discharges when the trigger isn't pulled.

The first time it becomes defective can have disastrous results.

But, since in your world nothing mechanical breaks or fails, your question seems an odd one.

 

[RaiderRich]

Back east I would not put a round in the chamber until I was on stand or stalking/still hunting. In the west the chamber is empty until I am on a stalk or occasionally if I am on a stand which is possible but more rare than in the east.

 

[Blue Rope]

Oh no, according to blue rope a properly taken care of 700 should remain mechanically sound forever...

Never said that, but I can see that you're not going to answer my question.

 

[Blue Rope]

I started this thread to get a question answered. I think I've got an answer. Clearly some folks are extraordinarily passionate about this particular subject. I'm out.

 

[Straight Arrow]

How many of you carry your rifle without a round in the chamber when you're hunting? I was just curious what the general opinion was on the topic?

Yes, and you should have known it is a somewhat silly question in that it is commonly known to be a personal preference ... as certainly illustrated by the responses and the somewhat silly back and forth discussion.

Next you may ask, "Just curious, how many prefer synthetic rifle stocks over wooden rifle stocks?" If so, that thread will thread its way through opinion maze similarly.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Yes, and you should have known it is a somewhat silly question in that it is commonly known to be a personal preference ... as certainly illustrated by the responses and the somewhat silly back and forth discussion.

Next you may ask, "Just curious, how many prefer synthetic rifle stocks over wooden rifle stocks?" If so, that thread will thread its way through opinion maze similarly.

That's an entirely different type of a question.

It's more like asking if a person prefers to wear a face mask whenever they leave their house, because of covid.

The type of stock someone prefers is not nearly as controversial.