Catastrophic Point Creep in Golf

[Deleted member 28227]

The reason Wyoming golf is underpriced in comparison to other places is that the market probably won't bear much more than that. You know, that whole supply/demand thing and much better courses found elsewhere is my guess. But again, I'm not a golf pro, but my neighbor Dave is.

So a subsidy... hate that for you.

I would also reckon that Wyoming hunting is akin to that fancy and much better course you're talking about, that clearly DOES NOT cut NR golfers any slack. In other words, Wyoming is the Brookline golf course of hunting.

We should be charging Brookline prices for our hunting, comparatively speaking. Yet, we aren't.

That would be Corbin Park, in New Hampshire. Though, WY does have it's fair share of snooty clubs.

 

[BuzzH]

Counting the spike and antlerless, it comes to 7,280 total- 4,368 regular and 2,912 special draw. The additional “cow or calf” tags are different units/codes/quotas, and listed in a separate draw odds report.

I’m not disagreeing with your numbers- those are all full priced, limited quota, issued in the initial draw.

I filtered mine down to bull tags (because I want one), not general units (because I’m shooting for the stars), and regular draw, because I’m a regular guy with a regular income. We appear to be counting different things here- you’re focused on the total nonresident pressure, while I’m focused on my chances to get a more premium bull tag in my lifetime. Those are vastly different metrics- there are 944 tags issued that meet those criteria of the 7,250 allocated.

I’m also not counting leftovers, reduced price tags, etc.

So I could get lucky. I could draw random. I could get a a leftover. I could pay to play in the line cutter’s scam. I could also marry a supermodel rocket scientist who is the sole heiress to a Montana ranch. At this point, I figure the odds are all about similar.

I'm curious how my NR nephew has drawn 3 great bull tags in 3 years in Wyoming...none random?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

@BuzzH Satire buddy.

The doe tags are ridiculous in my mind, from both a biological and moral standpoint. Doe's aren't the surplus they are the future of the population, and I agree that setting a lower prices creates the idea that they are of far lesser value.

I'd back your play on raising prices for Doe/cow tags every day.

 

[BuzzH]

So a subsidy... hate that for you.

That would be Corbin Park, in New Hampshire. Though, WY does have it's fair share of snooty clubs.

IMO, I don't think WY golf is subsidized, its what the market bears. But again, I'm not a golfer and wouldn't know a good course from a bad one or how much I should be paying to golf.

The offer stands, my neighbor really is a good guy to talk to and knows his stuff about golf.

But, I do know for sure that Wyoming NR hunting is undervalued considering the demand and quality. The application numbers pretty well prove that.

 

[R.K.]

I'm curious how my NR nephew has drawn 3 great bull tags in 3 years in Wyoming...none random?

With 0 preference points? He's very good at checking data, I guess. Or leftover lists. Or entered the special draw. Or party applied with someone with points.

There were a grand total of 3 units that issued tags to Nonresidents with <1 preference point in 2021 in the regular draw- one of which issued only 2 tags of the 40-tag quota for that unit/type designation.

This is the document I'm looking at, for reference- https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/Hunting/Drawing Odds/2021-NR-Elk-Regular-PP.pdf His tag should be on that list if he drew it last year.

Or, the data is just BS, and life ain't fair- wouldn't be the first time. Tags are not impossible to get, but hoping to get a "great bull tag" with any regularity in the regular draw seems to be a pipe dream, which is the point I've been trying to make.

 

[PrairieHunter]

A whole season for $219 and you don't even need to be friends with George Bush to join... the outrage

View attachment 226449

Enjoy subsidized NR tags. It costs the state of WY 30-50 million $ is lost revenue.

 

[BuzzH]

With 0 preference points? He's very good at checking data, I guess. Or leftover lists. Or entered the special draw. Or party applied with someone with points.

There were a grand total of 3 units that issued tags to Nonresidents with <1 preference point in 2021 in the regular draw- one of which issued only 2 tags of the 40-tag quota for that unit/type designation.

This is the document I'm looking at, for reference- https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/Hunting/Drawing Odds/2021-NR-Elk-Regular-PP.pdf His tag should be on that list if he drew it last year.

Or, the data is just BS, and life ain't fair- wouldn't be the first time. Tags are not impossible to get, but hoping to get a "great bull tag" with any regularity in the regular draw seems to be a pipe dream, which is the point I've been trying to make.

Yes, with zero preference points for the second tag, NR youth fee for all 3.

His Uncle is very good at keeping track of things, or so I'm told.

 

[JLS]

Enjoy subsidized NR tags. It costs the state of WY 30-50 million $ is lost revenue.

If it’s all about revenue, scrap all the drawings and sell all the tags via sealed bid auction.

Resident pool and non resident. Stop subsidizing everyone.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

IMO, I don't think WY golf is subsidized, its what the market bears. But again, I'm not a golfer and wouldn't know a good course from a bad one or how much I should be paying to golf.

The offer stands, my neighbor really is a good guy to talk to and knows his stuff about golf.

But, I do know for sure that Wyoming NR hunting is undervalued considering the demand and quality. The application numbers pretty well prove that.

You have far better chances of teaching me how to properly shoot a SxS without slapping the triggers, than teaching me how to golf

 

[JLS]

You have far better chances of teaching me how to properly shoot a SxS without slapping the triggers, than teaching me how to golf

Slapping the trigger while shooting a shotgun is simply a fact of life. It’s all about adapting your form to mitigate the effects of it.

Someone else will have to handle golf questions.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

mitigate the effects of it.

So setting off both barrels every time

 

[JLS]

So setting off both barrels every time

Put some ass into it.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Enjoy subsidized NR tags. It costs the state of WY 30-50 million $ is lost revenue.

versus Disney Land



There is inherit value beyond $'s, capitalism, maximizing profit is not the best system for everything. Public trust assets have never, nor should they ever, be valued entirely on a free market basis.

 

[PrairieHunter]

So a subsidy... hate that for you.

It's apparent that you do not understand what subsidy is based on your posts.

Golf is not a state owned resource. Wildlife is a different story.



It makes you look foolish to try and compare crappy WY golf courses (primarily private) to the state owned wildlife resource and act like they are similar situations. There is nothing similar about the 2.

You should keep going with the golf though. You act is entertaining.

 

[PrairieHunter]

versus Disney Land



There is inherit value beyond $'s, capitalism, maximizing profit is not the best system for everything. Public trust assets have never, nor should they ever, be valued entirely on a free market basis.

It's funny watching you change the subject and squirm all because you know you I am right. Golf, YNP, etc have nothing to do with this. You are just trying to change the subject.


The state of Wyoming has no obligation to provide low cost hunting opportunities for non residents. none. This is not a hunting welfare state for non residents.

States who who have leadership that choose to leave 30-50 million $ in revenue on the table by choice in the form of lost NR tag revenue are not doing their job IMO.

At the very least Wyoming should double every NR tag price.

 

[PrairieHunter]

If it’s all about revenue, scrap all the drawings and sell all the tags via sealed bid auction.

Resident pool and non resident. Stop subsidizing everyone.

I think it's foolish for the state of WY to sell NR tags for as cheap as they do. $40 for an anteloepe tag, $700 for an elk tag, etc.. are simply way too low .

If Kansas can charge $600 for a whitetail tag I tend do think a Wyoming elk tag is worth substantially more.

What are your thoughts on the price of the tags in WY?

Most people realize the tags are a bargain, the apps prove this.

At some point government agencies can't just keep giving away resources. WY needs to adjust NR tag pricing.

 

[Erussell01]

Huh

You know I’m not really into this whole “hiking” thing… so like I get to drive around in a cart right? So like hunting pronghorn in WY?

Here I was walking across the sage packing my rifle and the locals there were just driving their trucks and side by sides into the walk in access area... silly me!

 

[ignorethefringes]

I think it's foolish for the state of WY to sell NR tags for as cheap as they do. $40 for an anteloepe tag, $700 for an elk tag, etc.. are simply way too low .

If Kansas can charge $600 for a whitetail tag I tend do think a Wyoming elk tag is worth substantially more.

What are your thoughts on the price of the tags in WY?

Most people realize the tags are a bargain, the apps prove this.

At some point government agencies can't just keep giving away resources. WY needs to adjust NR tag pricing.

Honest question: Why doesn't any of this apply to residents?

I know that the animals are held in trust for the citizens, basically. But wouldn't it be in the best interest of the animals, and therefore the citizens, to have WGFD as fully funded as possible? Shouldn't they then increase resident prices until they find an equilibrium between price and demand? Surely there is some room there before enough residents would stop hunting to offset the income from the price increases.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

It's funny watching you change the subject and squirm all because you know you I am right. Golf, YNP, etc have nothing to do with this. You are just trying to change the subject.


The state of Wyoming has no obligation to provide low cost hunting opportunities for non residents. none. This is not a hunting welfare state for non residents.

States who who have leadership that choose to leave 30-50 million $ in revenue on the table by choice in the form of lost NR tag revenue are not doing their job IMO.

At the very least Wyoming should double every NR tag price.

I'm sorry for pushing your buttons, this whole thread is a joke, that's why I put it under fireside. That's why everyone was laughing at the first post.

Like I said in #25 I didn't even apply.

I'm poking fun at the idea we would just take up golf if we don't draw. Everyone here loves hunting, no way I'm taking up golf.

Sure slight truth, for most of my life I've been a CO resident I was for a brief period a MT resident, I genuinely want other people to get to have some of the experiences I've been blessed to have.

It was not my intention to make you feel personally attacked I was just being silly.

 

[morley.tyler]

WOW this thread definitely got way off track. Hilarious. I served on the USS Boise for a few years just after they won the Fiesta Bowl. It was a moment of pride for the Submarine community. We had BSU donkeys mustangs and blue "carpet" all over the sub on everything. Heck, I think the head coach, mayor, and dean even came for a visit once.

FIFY