Can you talk me out of getting a GSP

[Mule man]

Many folks don’t realize there is a difference between drahts and and wire hairs. Per VDD standards, a dog that is observed by a judge to show aggression towards another dog or any person is immediately marked ineligible for a breeding number.

A dog that chews up game during the drags and retrieves fails the test.

Just curious, what exactly is the difference in the two breeds?

 

[TheJason]

Just curious, what exactly is the difference in the two breeds?

The GWP originated from Drahthaars imported to the US. I’m sure there has been some crossbreeding of Pointers into the GWP breed.

The Drahthaar must pass a very rigorous testing and evaluation process in order to get a breeding number. Only puppies from two certified breeding dogs can be registered as Drahthaars. The standards for a registered GWP pale in comparison. Any uncertified Draht can be registered as a GWP and used for breeding.

Breeding Drahthaars must pass evaluation for form, coat, bite, and have x rays for hips and elbows. Dogs that pass the final utility test (VGP) must have a high degree of mental stability, cooperation, and drive.

It’s not a fool proof system, but it’s a very good one. The odds of genetic outliers are greatly reduced. The same cannot be said for the GWP gene pool.

 

[Irrelevant]

The same cannot be said for the GWP gene pool.

Or humans for that matter.

 

[Mule man]

The GWP originated from Drahthaars imported to the US. I’m sure there has been some crossbreeding of Pointers into the GWP breed.

The Drahthaar must pass a very rigorous testing and evaluation process in order to get a breeding number. Only puppies from two certified breeding dogs can be registered as Drahthaars. The standards for a registered GWP pale in comparison. Any uncertified Draht can be registered as a GWP and used for breeding.

Breeding Drahthaars must pass evaluation for form, coat, bite, and have x rays for hips and elbows. Dogs that pass the final utility test (VGP) must have a high degree of mental stability, cooperation, and drive.

It’s not a fool proof system, but it’s a very good one. The odds of genetic outliers are greatly reduced. The same cannot be said for the GWP gene pool.

So why do some have a lot of hair while others don't?

 

[OntarioHunter]

Wow ,this sounds like a owners problem to me. I can never fault a dog that was not brought up right.

He was a nice guy and had raised Labs before. A drug enforcement cop. I have been around a lot of hunting dogs over the last sixty years, including seven of my own. There was something "off" about that one. When he told me it killed his wife's dog, I wasn't surprised. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say he probably got rid of it. The porcupine business was not good! The dog clearly had a mind of it's own and was not the least interested in pleasing its owner. Hard to say what it was interested in. I was glad the guy had a chance to enjoy himself the second day.

 

[TheJason]

So why do some have a lot of hair while others don't?

Genetic expression. Some express the Griffon type coat. I’m not an expert on how long a coat can be and still pass a breed conformation evaluation. Some come out completely slick with no beard like a Kurzhaar.

 

[Mule man]

Genetic expression. Some express the Griffon type coat. I’m not an expert on how long a coat can be and still pass a breed conformation evaluation. Some come out completely slick with no beard like a Kurzhaar.

Just asking as I have a friend that has two, one is hairy and the other is slick like a shot hair?

 

[TheJason]

Just asking as I have a friend that has two, one is hairy and the other is slick like a shot hair?

Assuming these are true Drahthaars, that wouldn't be out of the question. It can also depend on how often the owner strips the hair on a longer coated Draht. I comb my dog about once a month, and do a full on strip about once or twice a year.

 

[Mule man]

Assuming these are true Drahthaars, that wouldn't be out of the question. It can also depend on how often the owner strips the hair on a longer coated Draht. I comb my dog about once a month, and do a full on strip about once or twice a year.

He said they are pure, the one just came like that. Beautiful dogs

 

[TheJason]

He said they are pure, the one just came like that. Beautiful dogs

A friend of mine, who is also a breeder has a female that is as shaggy as they come. She has hair as long or longer than any Griffon.

Also, a true draht will have an ear tattoo. Any dog that does not have a tattoo has not been registered in Germany and is NOT a true drahthaar. Whenever a draht is run in a test, the handler must have the ahnentafl (pedigree) in hand and the tatoo number is compared to that on the ahnentafl. The test results are recorded on this by the judge. If the dog fails for a certain reason (gun sensitivity, destruction of game, etc.) it is also recorded.

The control mechanisms are really pretty impressive.

 

[Mule man]

A friend of mine, who is also a breeder has a female that is as shaggy as they come. She has hair as long or longer than any Griffon.

Also, a true draht will have an ear tattoo. Any dog that does not have a tattoo has not been registered in Germany and is NOT a true drahthaar. Whenever a draht is run in a test, the handler must have the ahnentafl (pedigree) in hand and the tatoo number is compared to that on the ahnentafl. The test results are recorded on this by the judge. If the dog fails for a certain reason (gun sensitivity, destruction of game, etc.) it is also recorded.

The control mechanisms are really pretty impressive.

Wow, great info. I will text him now. Happy new year

 

[Mule man]

His have tattoos,just sent a text pic

 

[Bjcoyne]

I’ve got a gsp. Excellent hunter, loves waterfowl the most tho. He is not a family dog. He tolerates my kids but is only interested in hunting. Makes for a difficult rest of the year when he’s not out in the field or in the pond.

 

[Horse]

My vote is a Griff, after owning several labs. I think their temperament fits better for the blind than the GSP. Their coat also allows them to be better fir cold weather, much like a lab.

 

[golfer]

My vote is a Griff, after owning several labs. I think their temperament fits better for the blind than the GSP. Their coat also allows them to be better fir cold weather, much like a lab.

Just got news our griffon pup was born this morning. Gonna be an exciting and fun new journey!

 

[Trailsend]

If you are set on a GSP look into NAVHDA lines. Nothing against the field trial GSP‘s, but the NAVHDA lines might suit your needs better.

 

[Mule man]

Just got news our griffon pup was born this morning. Gonna be an exciting and fun new journey!

Always exciting, best of luck will be fun

 

[LoveBirdDogs]

I only ever hunted over one. Had to keep my dogs in the vehicle. It had killed its owner's other dog. NOT friendly. A difficult dog to read. Made me nervous. And not a particularly good hunter. We never got a shot. Never went on point. Seemed to have no interest in birds. It got into a porky and that was the end of the day. No chance that dog would let either of us touch him. Owner tried and got bit. Off to the vet. The next day we went back to same property. The owner left his dog in its crate and we hunted my dogs. I shot a limit and he got one.

I went Grouse hunting with the owner of the Drahthaar, another friend that owns a lab and my Springer Brandy. I unloaded my dog from the truck and the lab was out at the same time. The Drahtharr got out and made a bee line for the lab. It was a fight tot he death. Thankfully they were able to pull them apart. Thank god it did not go after my 30lb springer she would have been dead. I have to add the Drahthaar is trained to run down and kill Cayotes.

 

[TheJason]

Sample sizes of n=1 are interesting. My mother-in-law lives next to a couple of golden retrievers. Every time I let my Draht out, they would charge the fence and race up and down it, barking and biting at the chain link. My dog looked at them with a "WTH is your problem" look. I've no doubt at all they'd start a fight without the fence in between.

People should AWAYS try to spend some time around dogs from a breeder they are looking at. It's way to easy to get caught up in test scores, ribbons, and pictures of lots of birds.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Sample sizes of n=1 are interesting. My mother-in-law lives next to a couple of golden retrievers. Every time I let my Draht out, they would charge the fence and race up and down it, barking and biting at the chain link. My dog looked at them with a "WTH is your problem" look. I've no doubt at all they'd start a fight without the fence in between.

People should AWAYS try to spend some time around dogs from a breeder they are looking at. It's way to easy to get caught up in test scores, ribbons, and pictures of lots of birds.

Seems the sample size is >1 since the Draht club website says the breed was perfected to run down and kill game. It was not specifically designed to be a bird dog.

The Labrador retreiver breed on the other hand originated from three St Johns dogs, a breed that sadly disappeared in the early 1980s. The St Johns breed was perfected primarily to do two things: 1) help retrieve fishing nets in the ocean and 2) keep the lonely fisherman in his dory company for extended periods. Those two characteristics, a close working affectionate personality and ability to retreive, are what still makes the Labrador retreiver desirable today. The modern Lab's hunting ability can probably be attributed to other contributions over several centuries during its perfection; primarily setters, pointing dogs, and even a bit of bloodhound.