Bush losing hunters support

BuzzH

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Looks like Dubya better start rethinking a few things...or better yet, maybe he'll be his usual self and make believe there isnt a problem...

Hunters, fishermen protest Bush environment policies
By JOAN LOWY
Scripps Howard News Service
March 11, 2004

- From the slopes of the Rocky Mountains to the primeval forests of Alaska to the prairie potholes of the Dakotas, hunting and fishing enthusiasts are rebelling against President Bush's public lands policies.

The nation's 47 million hunters and anglers tend to be conservative Republicans who voted for Bush in the last election, but many sportsmen say they have been imbued with a new sense of militancy by the administration's sacrifice of some of the best wild lands in America to economic development.

"It seems like no matter which area you look in or what shrub you look under, this administration has waged all-out war on conservation," said Tony Dean, who hosts a popular television and radio show for hunters and anglers in the Midwest.

Dean, who lives in Pierre, S.D., said he is most angered by a policy the administration proposed last fall that would have made it easier for farmers and developers to fill in wetlands.

The wetlands of the Dakotas, called prairie potholes, provide some of the most important habitat in North America for migratory ducks and some of the best duck hunting in the world.

If there are no wetlands, there are no ducks. If there are no ducks, there is no duck hunting. For hunters like Dean, the conservation issue trumps even gun rights as a top concern.

"I think I own 60 shotguns and rifles. I certainly am a Second Amendment believer," Dean said. "But if there is nothing to hunt, then guns don't mean that much to me."

The administration's efforts to open more public lands on the Eastern front of the Rocky Mountains to oil and gas drilling has driven some sportsmen to do something they never thought they'd do - make common cause with environmentalists.

"People who couldn't even bring themselves to say the word Democrat a few years ago are now willing to join arm-in-arm with the Sierra Club to save the Eastern front," said Ryan Busse, 34, vice president of Kimber Mfg. Inc., a high-end gun manufacturer in Kalispell, Mont.

This year's presidential election will probably be "the first time in my life that I will have voted for somebody other than a Republican in a national election," said Busse, who spends over 70 days a year fly fishing or hunting.

Alan Lackey, 43, a former cowboy who is now a car dealer in Raton, N.M., came to Washington recently with a group of Western sportsmen to protest oil and gas drilling provisions in a major energy bill before Congress that is one of Bush's top legislative priorities.

"I consider some of these places (where drilling has been proposed) to be heaven on earth," Lackey said.

In Southeast Alaska, the administration's decision to open the Tongass National Forest - one of the last old growth forests on the continent - to logging prompted Greg Petrich, an avid hunter and angler in Juneau, to ask contact gun clubs across the country to sign a protest petition.

Nearly 500 gun clubs, from the Slippery Rock Sportsmen's Club of Pennsylvania to the Pinetucky Gun Club of Georgia, signed the petition, including 40 clubs from Bush's home state of Texas.

The petition drive proved "that your conservative, rightwing gun owners are really attached to hunting and wild areas and keeping those areas intact for the next generation," said Petrich, a registered Republican with a degree in gunsmithing.

The White House is keenly aware of the problem and has taken steps to address the sportsmen's concerns. "We've had a long and very constructive partnership with outdoors and recreation groups," said James Connaughton, chairman of the White House Council on Environmental Policy. "The fact that they are coming to us (with their concerns) is something we welcome."

With regard to energy development and logging, the administration is merely administering public lands according to "multiple use" principles set out by Congress that require industry be allowed access to public lands in addition to recreational users, Connaughton said.

The administration is trying to preserve wetlands by providing landowners with financial incentives not to develop their land, Connaughton said.

In November, Interior Secretary Gale Norton met with the leaders of 20 groups who represent hunters and anglers, including Ducks Unlimited, Safari Club International, the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership and the Boone and Crockett Club. The groups told Norton that protecting wetlands and the Eastern front of the Rockies from development are their top priorities.

Three weeks later, some of the leaders who met with Norton were invited to a session with Bush at the White House. The meeting was ostensibly to thank the groups for supporting Bush's bill to increase logging in national forests to reduce the risk of wildfires, but much of the discussion with the president - which lasted nearly an hour - was about protecting wetlands.

Four days later, Bush killed the proposed wetlands rule. Sporting groups said the move was a step forward, but did not resolve the wetlands issue since federal agencies are still operating under guidance issued more than a year ago that allows landowners to fill in isolated wetlands that do not connect to other bodies of water.

Unrest among hunters and anglers could prove critical in some swing states where the presidential race is expected to close, such as Arizona, Florida, New Mexico, Oregon and Pennsylvania, said Jim DiPeso of Republicans for Environmental Protection.

"In a lot of these communities hunting is a way of life, a culture," DiPeso said. "Woe be it to an administration that takes away their hunting places."
 
So have you guys written to Bush and told him what you think yet? :confused: I have.
 
Yep, Buzz!!!!
As usual...Lets just look at the worst doom and gloom you can dredge out of where ever you get some of this stuff...You won't change any minds no matter what drivel you scrape out of the gutters. I keep seeing the guy's that hunt waterfowl on this board seeming to do very well, even with all of the planet destroyed and laid to waste as you continually report...I think I will keep my eyes open and see all of the life and vitality that surrounds me and not turn into a bitter old man because I let a few little things eat at my very soul...Maybe you ought to do as some of your predecessors did in the sixties and stop to smell the daisies... ;)
 
"I think I own 60 shotguns and rifles. I certainly am a Second Amendment believer," Dean said. "But if there is nothing to hunt, then guns don't mean that much to me." What the hell does hunting have to do with the Second Amendment?

Evidently these guys haven't seen kerry's quotes on drilling..
 
So what your saying Buzz & Ithaca is that we would of been better off having voted in Al Gore and all his Green based agenda then to have Bush right now? LOL

I just don't see any of your Democrat's that are running now or have in the last few years pushing for hunting , fishing or property right's.

I have to give it to you that they do want to save more ,but for what and who and to what end?
So we will be more dependent on other country's for our oil & food? So we wont have to worry about owning property because those that want to "save it & conserve it" will make it so no one can use it.

Yeah stick with the green side LOL they will be having you eating gronala & veggies out of there hands in no time at all.

No I'am not against conservation, but it should be kept in balance with everything else including our right to private property,job growth, energy development,and not place us in the position to be dependent on other countrys for everything.

I see Bush as being far sighted enough to understand that concept,and being able to balance it out better that any one we have seen running against the republican's .
You have to look past what comes out of there mouth and see what action's they have taken or what path they will take us down.
No thank you on the any of the demacrat greenie's we have had running for office,not for a long time.
 
"So what your saying Buzz & Ithaca is that we would of been better off having voted in Al Gore and all his Green based agenda then to have Bush right now? LOL"

Wrong again, as usual. :D I think Bush was the right one for the last 4 years. Now it's time for a change before we lose all our hunting and fishing due to his policies.
 
[ Along with Senator Joe Biden, Kerry sponsored a State Department bill amendment that addressed the issue of global climate change by mandating the Bush Administration to engage in international environmental renegotiations and to work toward revising Kyoto Protocol. This amendment would promote shared international responsibility from all major world powers in preventing the acceleration of global warming. Senator Kerry was given ratings of 100% by both the League of Conservation Voters and the Humane Society of the United States. The Sierra Club has publicly commended Kerry for his environmental record, stating that, "there is no stronger advocate in the Senate for environmental protection than John Kerry."]



Ithaca ,someone that gets the backing of
"The Humane Society Of The United States" should be just the guy all of us hunters should be backing ,is that what your saying?


How many of us on here would support The Humane Society Of The United States?
Kerry might be for conservation but I doubt that the The Humane Society Of The United States would be backing someone they thought they couldn't win over to there NON HUNTING view's,Do you?
Conservation is a good thing,but let's not forget to see how far some of these guys really want to take that good idea?
 
Kerry's Record on Energy

If ya dont believe this go to Senator Kerry's own website and check for yourself.


SOUND DOMESTIC PRODUCTION & SUPPLY
Senator Kerry has called for a balanced energy policy including significant oil and gas production. He supports the exploration and development of vast tracks of state and federal land throughout the U.S., including in Alaska, in the waters of the Gulf of Mexico and elsewhere.

For example, Alaska recently completed a lease sale of 950,000 acres on its North Slope and has plans to lease another 7 million acres. The Department of the Interior has plans to lease 3 million acres of federal land in the National Petroleum Reserve in Alaska. Some 32 million acres in the Gulf of Mexico, which British Petroleum (BP) has called one of the most promising reserves in the world, have been leased but are not, yet, in production.

Senator Kerry also supports federal assistance in the creation of a pipeline carrying natural gas from the oil fields of Alaska’s North Slope to the lower 48 states.
LINK

Nemont
 
I called Kimber today to try to get some clarification as to Mr. Busse's comments and here is the email that they replied with...........


Clarification of quote by Ryan Busse relating to upcoming election



A news report dated March 11, 2004, and brought to our attention by several Kimber owners contains what is presented as a quote from Kimber employee Ryan Busse.



The actual statement made by Mr. Busse was misquoted and presented out of context.



Mr. Busse did not state how he planned to vote in the upcoming national election. His actual statement simply expressed concern that some voters who traditionally support conservative candidates might switch affiliation in reaction to this development, and that he hoped this switch would not happen as it would not be good for either the preservation of hunting opportunity or second amendment rights.



Mr. Busse is a life-long supporter of the second amendment, hunting and conservation – as well as being politically conservative. It was not his intention to suggest or encourage a position that would in any way weaken second amendment rights or public hunting opportunity. Moreover, he was not representing Kimber when the statement was made.



Both Kimber and Mr. Busse apologize for this misunderstanding, and thank our customers for bringing it to our attention.
 
Nemont, the natural gas pipeline is a great idea, with that in place, the Front in Montana might not be destroyed, thats good policy.

Its kind of amusing that all the people who cry about relying on foreign oil, and call for the need to drill in AK, dont even realize how much of that oil from AK is sold overseas.

Hey elkchsr, you're a joke.

While you're busy smelling the daisies, the absolute best Wildlife habitat in Montana is being threatened by Bush and his cronies...

Apparently you dont see a problem with destroying critical habitat for the largest herd of native bighorns in MT. The sheep on the front are from the genetic pool that has produced the supply of sheep that have been transplanted all over Montana, check out the B&C record book sometime, notice anything unusual about MT and its rams? Thank the genetics of the Sun River bighorns.

Its also critical habitat for over 2000 elk that winter there, and come out of the, Bob Marshall, Scapegoat, etc.

Its also the only place in the lower 48 where grizzlies regularly use habitat on the plains, and also key habitat to ensure they wont be listed.

Its also an important area for raptors in the spring of the year, and literally hundreds of golden eagles, hawks, etc. congregrate there each spring to hunt ground squirrels.

Oh, and speaking of waterfowl, which you dont know jack diddly shit about, the front also is pretty important to waterfowl...ever heard of Freezeout lake? Its a major waterfowl migration stopping point and nesting spot for waterfowl of all types. It also provides many thousands of hours of hunting opportunities for waterfowlers each year. Dont try to challenge me on the condition of the wetlands and threat that they and the waterfowl are under. Its a huge problem, just because a few people whack their limits of geese and ducks, doesnt mean anything. I worked as a volunteer serving as a board member for the Wetlands Protection Advisory Council for a few years... I was appointed (for 5 years) to this position by the Director of the MTFWP (Pat Graham). In fact, the council authorized (and funded) a wetlands restoration project right in Anaconda so grade school kids could learn about wetlands, waterfowl, etc. I strongly urge you to call Tom Hinz, the WPAC's director, he'd like to know that wetlands dont need his help anymore, because people on Hunttalk have shot their limits of ducks lately...do you realize how ignorant that would sound?

Yeah, I guess I'm a little concerned about Bush's stupid assed idea to destroy or threaten the Front country over a months worth of natural gas, its ridiculous. Your welcome for the letters I've written and the $$$ I've spent to help stop Bush's BS idea to destroy what the MTFWP calls, "the top percent of wildlife in the lower 48".

You really are clueless, perhaps you've played in the tailing piles too much...

[ 03-16-2004, 22:19: Message edited by: BuzzH ]
 
Buzz,

I am just impressed with you, that you could even figure out what Elkchsr was talking about.... It just seemed like another pointless rant.
 
Gunner, its tough sometimes to follow the rants. I mean, all I do is dredge out a bunch of useless info to annoy elkchsr, those damn Montana Hunters and Fishermen and that pesky website of theirs...you know the montana hunting and fishing journal website...all they do is worry about hunting, fishing, wildlife habitat, and the environment...damn commies!!!! I have to quit dredging up stuff from their site, like the article posted in this thread....
 
That's a Looooooooooooooong way from a limit. If anybody thinks that was a good day of "waterfowling", they are idiots. Of course, if you were a non-hunter, then I guess I could see how you would be impressed.

But that is a helluva nice gun that ol' Dubya has. Looks like a Browning A-500R. Early to mid '90s vintage. When put in the right hands, quite effective on ducks and geese. For Dubya to get a picture, it would either have to be staged or a photoshop.

Wasn't Dubya the guy, a few years back, that went dove hunting, and shot a Kildeer?
Hunting and fishing may not be politically correct, but there are 47 million hunting and fishing enthusiasts in America. Add in some sympathetic family members, and suddenly the sportsmen's vote looks pretty significant.

Nearly all recent presidents have enjoyed either hunting or fishing, or both. President Bush went quail hunting with his father on New Year's Day, but his most often-publicized hunting trip came a few years ago, when he went dove hunting and mistakenly shot a killdeer, a protected species of shorebird that looks a lot like a dove. Bush reported himself to the local game warden and paid the fine with no qualms.
 
Originally posted by ElkGunner:
That's a Looooooooooooooong way from a limit. If anybody thinks that was a good day of "waterfowling", they are idiots. Of course, if you were a non-hunter, then I guess I could see how you would be impressed.

But that is a helluva nice gun that ol' Dubya has. Looks like a Browning A-500R. Early to mid '90s vintage. When put in the right hands, quite effective on ducks and geese. For Dubya to get a picture, it would either have to be staged or a photoshop.

Wasn't Dubya the guy, a few years back, that went dove hunting, and shot a Kildeer?
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Hunting and fishing may not be politically correct, but there are 47 million hunting and fishing enthusiasts in America. Add in some sympathetic family members, and suddenly the sportsmen's vote looks pretty significant.

Nearly all recent presidents have enjoyed either hunting or fishing, or both. President Bush went quail hunting with his father on New Year's Day, but his most often-publicized hunting trip came a few years ago, when he went dove hunting and mistakenly shot a killdeer, a protected species of shorebird that looks a lot like a dove. Bush reported himself to the local game warden and paid the fine with no qualms.
</font>[/QUOTE]Meanwhile, you have Kerry proving that not only can he identify his target (very valuable in a Commander in Chief), but that he is a damn good shot, effective with the use of arms.

John Kerry caught the attention of hunters when he invited the press to go along on a pheasant hunt in Iowa last November. On that hunt he killed two roosters with two shots. That hunt was a critical factor in his winning in Iowa, which began his long run of victories. By inviting the press along to photograph him as he bagged two birds with two shots, he proved that he was both a hunter and a damn good shot and also that he's not afraid of any animal-rights backlash.[/B]

Some hunters also felt an instant kinship with Kerry. As Ryan McKinney, the Iowa farmer on whose property Kerry hunted, said, "It feels a little safer if your presidential hopeful isn't going to go after your typical normal shotgun."
Let's see, from a "Hunters" standpoint, you have ol' Dubya who doesn't identify his target, and just shoots at whatever flies, and even more important, wastes his time trying to pursue doves, and even worse, failing. And, at the end of the day, has to go around, trying to fix the damage his recklessness has caused.
Or........
You have Kerry, who goes after only the most important of game, does it in full view of the public, with nothing to hide, and successfully completes his mission with two roosters.

Gosh, as a hunter, I wonder who I would rather spend time in the field with?
shhh.gif
 
In duck boots from L. L. Bean, blue jeans, two flannel shirts and an orange safety vest, Mr. Kerry tramped through the brush of an old cornfield with a local farmer's 9-year-old English pointer, Buck, trailing. Less than five minutes into his expedition, before journalists could get out of their cars and hurdle a barbed-wire fence to record the moment, Buck rousted a bird, Mr. Kerry took aim and fired, and the first blood of the Democratic presidential campaign was spilled.

Mr. Kerry proved quite the shot. Moments later, he leveled his gun suddenly and squeezed his trigger once more, and another pheasant fell to the ground, this time with an appreciative pack of journalists witnessing the kill.

Bizarre as the juxtaposition seemed, Mr. Kerry said his gun control stance and his marksmanship were quite compatible.

"It's not a mixed message," he said. "I'm just being where I've been all my life."

"I believe in the Second Amendment in this country," Mr. Kerry continued. "But I don't believe that assault weapons ought to be sold in the streets of America. Never believed it, don't believe it now."
KerryPheasantHuntingsm2.jpg
 
I heard a different story Gunner, GW was bobwhite hunting, a meadowlark flushed, he nailed it, when they discovered what it was HE called the F&G dept and reported it. It's quite easy to mistake a meadowlark for a quail. it's not so easy to mistake a Killdeer for a dove.

I would bet that Kerry shot released pheasants, anyone who's ever shot released pheasants knows that it is quite similar to shooting a beach ball.
 

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