Bulls for Billionaires take 2 (Wyoming edition)

[Jdp010]

The NR wilderness rule demonstrated in 1977 how much power WY outfitters have with the WY legislature.

Looks like they still have that power.

Wyomingites might need to stop voting for state legislators that support welfare.

Too bad there isn’t a political party in WY that supports free market supply and demand and abhors welfare programs.

 

[cahunter805]

Yes. But like I said, I have some empathy for them. It is tough to run a business with such variability. I think they have to change the business model somehow. But like you, I say that in theory with nothing to back it up.

Here are the results for the NR Special PP draw- general tag, lowest point level not at 100% odds. This you would assume is NRs that make up a large portion of the outfitter group. You can see how it is impossible to plan ahead. This is a problem for GoHunt too. No way to even semi accurately predict the draw odds in 2023.

2018 1pt 97%
2019 1pt 17.6%
2020 2pt 37%
2021 2pt 22%
2022 3pt 45%

This proves that there is definitely a demand for the general tags. It’s the outfitters job to sell their products to the consumers who have drawn a tag. They are just to lazy to solicit them and instead want clients to just book themselves. Maybe if they didn’t charge $7000 for a hunt they might get a few more clients.

Or maybe it’s because they want to book the same clients year after year as many of them are very wealthy and can afford it. So they want another handout/welfare to ensure they can keep these clients happy!

Hell I could probably be convinced to share all my WY points with an outfitter/client in exchange for a camp and horse ride if it was a hunt/unit I was interested in.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

In theory there is an unlimited supply of Gen elk tag holders in Wyo. Resident hunters. Outfitters do such a horrible job of trying to encourage resident hunters to book. There are two outfitters that run out of the TH I typically hunt. Both seem to go out of their way to be DB's to every hunter they encounter that is not a paying client. I can tell you at some point in my life, I'm not going to be able to effectively hunt and pack out an elk from the country I love to hunt the most. I would absolutely use the services of an outfitter if and when it comes to that but I'll be damned if I would use either of them.

 

[LopeHunter]

The entirety of the Midwest

apparently

Brown and down is a way to put meat in the freezer. Alas, when add up door-to-door costs for that meat as a non-resident the price per pound is often rivaling flying in live lobster. My AK mountain goat was over $300 a pound when add in application, license, guide, airfare, new gear, shipping meat in the belly of the airplane as overweight baggage and the taxidermy.

 

[TheJason]

In theory there is an unlimited supply of Gen elk tag holders in Wyo. Resident hunters. Outfitters do such a horrible job of trying to encourage resident hunters to book. There are two outfitters that run out of the TH I typically hunt. Both seem to go out of their way to be DB's to every hunter they encounter that is not a paying client. I can tell you at some point in my life, I'm not going to be able to effectively hunt and pack out an elk from the country I love to hunt the most. I would absolutely use the services of an outfitter if and when it comes to that but I'll be damned if I would use either of them.

I’ve had the same experience in other states. Some wilderness outfitters are the epitome of DB, and a few I’ve met I would hire in a heartbeat when I’m old.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Brown and down is a way to put meat in the freezer. Alas, when add up door-to-door costs for that meat as a non-resident the price per pound is often rivaling flying in live lobster. My AK mountain goat was over $300 a pound when add in application, license, guide, airfare, new gear, shipping meat in the belly of the airplane as overweight baggage and the taxidermy.

True... though same time I had an elk I killed about 25 min from town, opening day, with a cheap MT resident tag, and I butchered myself. Couldn't have been more 80 cents a pound all in, including gas/tag/bullets/ butcher paper/etc.

 

[SAJ-99]

True... though same time I had an elk I killed about 25 min from town, opening day, with a cheap MT resident tag, and I butchered myself. Couldn't have been more 80 cents a pound all in, including gas/tag/bullets/ butcher paper/etc.

Show off.

 

[SAJ-99]

In theory there is an unlimited supply of Gen elk tag holders in Wyo. Resident hunters. Outfitters do such a horrible job of trying to encourage resident hunters to book. There are two outfitters that run out of the TH I typically hunt. Both seem to go out of their way to be DB's to every hunter they encounter that is not a paying client. I can tell you at some point in my life, I'm not going to be able to effectively hunt and pack out an elk from the country I love to hunt the most. I would absolutely use the services of an outfitter if and when it comes to that but I'll be damned if I would use either of them.

It follows my theory that the majority of people that do the "work for myself" thing are insufferable human beings. That said, I have met some guides that are super nice people.

 

[Beanland_fan]

@BuzzH Thanks for the info. I'd be interested in hearing what Pete Dube had/has to say, considering that his prior career was as an outfitter.

 

[RobertD]

What is the bare minimum an outfitter is required to do while still being classified as “guiding” a hunter? If they don’t even have to be with you, I would gladly pay to just get access to the tag- they can hang around at camp (or home) for all I care, would rather do things myself.

There are definitely dudes in NM that operate like this.

 

[RobertD]

How about WYOGA gets a set aside on the strict condition that it's legally referred to as an outfitter subsidy and the "special draw" is renamed the "welfare bracket"

No but seriously. It pisses me off to see one specific thing, and that's WYOGA trying to leverage resident support of 90/10 into resident support of garbage that benefits their clients.

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

While watching this same BS go down in MT, I never really though about it happening in WY. How naive I was.

 

[Ben Lamb]

While watching this same BS go down in MT, I never really though about it happening in WY. How naive I was.

Greed lays dormant until someone opens the vault. 2021 showed outfitters across the west that if they can control MT, they can own every state.

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

How about WYOGA gets a set aside on the strict condition that it's legally referred to as an outfitter subsidy and the "special draw" is renamed the "welfare bracket"

No but seriously. It pisses me off to see one specific thing, and that's WYOGA trying to leverage resident support of 90/10 into resident support of garbage that benefits their clients.

Not sure it actually benefits the clients since the crappy outfitters get to stay in business and don't have to actually compete to stay in business and earn a profit.

Is outfitting really a full time business for most of these people or more of a side hustle? It seems like they don't treat it like a real business that you actually have to market, follow up, and provide customer service to. I know there's some good ones out there but these guys that come beg for welfare are probably the ones the public would benefit the most from having wash out of the business.

 

[BuzzH]

Not sure it actually benefits the clients since the crappy outfitters get to stay in business and don't have to actually compete to stay in business and earn a profit.

Is outfitting really a full time business for most of these people or more of a side hustle? It seems like they don't treat it like a real business that you actually have to market, follow up, and provide customer service to. I know there's some good ones out there but these guys that come beg for welfare are probably the ones the public would benefit the most from having wash out of the business.

I think that's the problem, that's rather recent, they're trying to turn a side hustle into a full time business.

In the past, most outfitters were seasonal with other jobs throughout the year.

Now they want to be full time and only have to work a month a year. Only way to achieve that is to control all the NR tags, or a vast majority of them.

I have an idea for them, if your clients don't draw either find clients through the GF portal you have access to for every non resident who drew a tag. Or, the other option is to go find a job the other 11 months you aren't outfitting. You know, bootstraps and all, 'merica.

 

[LopeHunter]

True... though same time I had an elk I killed about 25 min from town, opening day, with a cheap MT resident tag, and I butchered myself. Couldn't have been more 80 cents a pound all in, including gas/tag/bullets/ butcher paper/etc.

Indeed. I used to shoot whitetail does and was $7 a tag with no limit on tags bought even as a non-resident visiting back home in Missouri. 50 pounds of trimmed meat for a $7 tag plus bullet and packaging costs as processed myself was a lot cheaper per pound than the buck I shot for $150 as a non-resident there the same day as the does. I don't think I could justify hunting squirrels or rabbits even as a resident due to cost of the ammunition. Or, doves, quail and teal.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Or, doves, quail and teal.

I average about a box a duck so definitely not for me... and @Ben Lamb won't let me ground pound grouse anymore

 

[BrentD]

I average about a box a duck so definitely not for me... and @Ben Lamb won't let me ground pound grouse anymore

I've got just just the solution for you this year - if you come. Let me know... Single trigger, new wood, perfect length, it will be a sweet shooter for a guy like you.

PS, only 50 yrs old, so you will identify with it more easily

 

[Deleted member 16014]

The TF is very outfitter heavy, no doubt about that. I’ve complained a bit to the chairs over the last few months about needing to take charge and slow things down, but honestly I’m starting to feel a little bad for them.

 

[BuckeyeRifleman]

Buzz, thanks for posting, let us know how we can be involved to make our voices heard.

It was disappointing to see how things went down in Montana, I sent emails to nearly every rep last year.

But the alternative is doing nothing, which isn’t an option.