Bulls for Billionaires - MT EQC Meeting today 1:30 PM

[Gerald Martin]

And honestly, the idea that these concepts being brought forward are "new" ignores the entirety of the issue since 2008.

As well as ignoring the fact that most of the public trust shareholders are willing to work together to find acceptable solutions.

The most durable solutions have come from working groups talking among themselves to bring solutions to FWP and asking them to implement their proposals.

The most contentious and counterproductive proposals have come from legislators seeking to advance one user group’s interests at the expense of other users’ interests.

 

[Eric Albus]

Eric, you must admit that is extremely unusual, especially for an outfitter / landowner. You just may be the one and only.

All my neighbor landowners also allowed everyone to hunt elk.

 

[DFS]

Those “limitless ideas” have people actually thinking and working towards viable solutions.
Personally I give Hank credit for throwing ideas out to get folks worked up enough to finally do something to come up with viable solutions. More has been done in the last year than the previous 16 of status quo.
Do I think your aforementioned were good, not particularly. But I will also give credit and say the Dept didn’t think any of those ideas would fly, but it certainly stirred the interest.

Honest question, do you think that the Director has done a good job?

 

[bigsky2]

Those “limitless ideas” have people actually thinking and working towards viable solutions.
Personally I give Hank credit for throwing ideas out to get folks worked up enough to finally do something to come up with viable solutions. More has been done in the last year than the previous 16 of status quo.
Do I think your aforementioned were good, not particularly. But I will also give credit and say the Dept didn’t think any of those ideas would fly, but it certainly stirred the interest.

You give Hank credit for throwing out terrible ideas (which you admit are bad) and causing a shit storm? Just because it's not status quo doesn't mean it's better. Seeing how many people got riled up and got involved goes to show how shitty those ideas were. Other than breaking up the 900 elk bundle and hinting that we might go to mandatory reporting, I don't think there have been any changes for the better in the past year. He certainly failed in his attempt to simplify things.

 

[The Hedgehog]

All my neighbor landowners also allowed everyone to hunt elk.

That is generous, not required, and I’m sure appreciated by many. NE MT folks that I know and grew up with are for the most part very great.

 

[rogerthat]

All my neighbor landowners also allowed everyone to hunt elk.

Still doesn't mean that this is normal. It is not. In southeast Montana, if you don't have family or friends with a ranch, you aren't hunting much private that isn't enrolled in Block Management. That I can assure you. As long as there are people paying to hunt, than profits will rule. That is a fact and I don't blame anyone for making a buck. But don't tell us you aren't trying to make a buck. That's the part I get hung up on. And don't tell us you are overrun with critters with no solutions. That's not the case. The available solutions don't match up with the plan to maximize profits in a lot of cases so landowners have to weigh the pros and cons and make a decision as to what is best for them. Let some peasants on to reduce depredation or keep the peasants out to maximize profits on the critters via outfitting. It is your choice and one hell of a privilege as a landowner. The peasants don't have the luxury to make the choice. Don't let this be lost on you.

 

[SwaggyD]

Still doesn't mean that this is normal. It is not. In southeast Montana, if you don't have family or friends with a ranch, you aren't hunting much private that isn't enrolled in Block Management. That I can assure you. As long as there are people paying to hunt, than profits will rule. That is a fact and I don't blame anyone for making a buck. But don't tell us you aren't trying to make a buck. That's the part I get hung up on. And don't tell us you are overrun with critters with no solutions. That's not the case. The available solutions don't match up with the plan to maximize profits in a lot of cases so landowners have to weigh the pros and cons and make a decision as to what is best for them. Let some peasants on to reduce depredation or keep the peasants out to maximize profits on the critters via outfitting. It is your choice and one hell of a privilege as a landowner. The peasants don't have the luxury to make the choice. Don't let this be lost on you.

Or they make it so landowners can have their cake and eat it, too!

 

[Straight Arrow]

All my neighbor landowners also allowed everyone to hunt elk.

By the way, thank-you, Eric Albus, and your neighbors also. That's the Montana of my youth.

 

[GearJunky]

A little off-topic, so forgive me, but money has always ruled our society (and hunting)... We keep talking about solutions, and one thing I have yet to see be brought up is an increase in the price of resident tag prices. Personally, I can't compete with the big money out of staters alone, but collectively I believe we can make a difference.

(my numbers might be off a little, but you get the point)

I currently pay $20 for an elk tag and the currently funded management programs seem to be lacking in many ways. What if my resident tag became $200... what "tools" could be afforded then?

I certainly can't answer this for the entire Montana population, but a $200 elk tag is not going to slow me down one second, yet the revenue generated for the state is tenfold.

If we don't like these topics coming up, over and over again... We are going to need to fight fire with fire.

 

[BuzzH]

A little off-topic, so forgive me, but money has always ruled our society (and hunting)... We keep talking about solutions, and one thing I have yet to see be brought up is an increase in the price of resident tag prices. Personally, I can't compete with the big money out of staters alone, but collectively I believe we can make a difference.

(my numbers might be off a little, but you get the point)

I currently pay $20 for an elk tag and the currently funded management programs seem to be lacking in many ways. What if my resident tag became $200... what "tools" could be afforded then?

I certainly can't answer this for the entire Montana population, but a $200 elk tag is not going to slow me down one second, yet the revenue generated for the state is tenfold.

If we don't like these topics coming up, over and over again... We are going to need to fight fire with fire.

IMO, the level of "management" you're getting in Montana probably doesn't warrant even charging $20 for an elk tag.

The MTFWP places no value on elk...weeds that need to be pulled from the garden of Wildlife, why make people pay a higher price for something they don't value?

 

[The Hedgehog]

IMO, the level of "management" you're getting in Montana probably doesn't warrant even charging $20 for an elk tag.

The MTFWP places no value on elk...weeds that need to be pulled from the garden of Wildlife, why make people pay a higher price for something they don't value?

Well, with all the fellacio that’s been taking place behind closed doors with Hank playing a key role.. There’s surely a handful of people that value them..

 

[DFS]

A little off-topic, so forgive me, but money has always ruled our society (and hunting)... We keep talking about solutions, and one thing I have yet to see be brought up is an increase in the price of resident tag prices. Personally, I can't compete with the big money out of staters alone, but collectively I believe we can make a difference.

(my numbers might be off a little, but you get the point)

I currently pay $20 for an elk tag and the currently funded management programs seem to be lacking in many ways. What if my resident tag became $200... what "tools" could be afforded then?

I certainly can't answer this for the entire Montana population, but a $200 elk tag is not going to slow me down one second, yet the revenue generated for the state is tenfold.

If we don't like these topics coming up, over and over again... We are going to need to fight fire with fire.

Makes sense to me. But remember hunters never come up with any good solutions or suggestions. That’s why the director is forced to ramrod BS through.

 

[Mountain Mule]

A little off-topic, so forgive me, but money has always ruled our society (and hunting)... We keep talking about solutions, and one thing I have yet to see be brought up is an increase in the price of resident tag prices. Personally, I can't compete with the big money out of staters alone, but collectively I believe we can make a difference.

(my numbers might be off a little, but you get the point)

I currently pay $20 for an elk tag and the currently funded management programs seem to be lacking in many ways. What if my resident tag became $200... what "tools" could be afforded then?

I certainly can't answer this for the entire Montana population, but a $200 elk tag is not going to slow me down one second, yet the revenue generated for the state is tenfold.

If we don't like these topics coming up, over and over again... We are going to need to fight fire with fire.

This would make the hurdle to enter hunting much higher. $200 for a new hunter is a ton of money for a tag that they don't even know where to begin on how to fill it. Hunter recruitment is already a challenging task. As a recent college grad, this would also impact my hunting budget greatly. I see where you're coming from though. Maybe a gradual increase rather than 10 fold increase off the bat.

 

[The Hedgehog]

This would make the hurdle to enter hunting much higher. $200 for a new hunter is a ton of money for a tag that they don't even know where to begin on how to fill it. Hunter recruitment is already a challenging task. As a recent college grad, this would also impact my hunting budget greatly. I see where you're coming from though. Maybe a gradual increase rather than 10 fold increase off the bat.

This is a total problem. The price residents pay for a deer or elk license is ridiculous. A one day lift ticket at Big Sky is $200. Why is it that a bull elk license good for half the year, is 10% of that? A high school kid can work for one hour and make enough to buy an elk license.

 

[S-3 Ranch]

This would make the hurdle to enter hunting much higher. $200 for a new hunter is a ton of money for a tag that they don't even know where to begin on how to fill it. Hunter recruitment is already a challenging task. As a recent college grad, this would also impact my hunting budget greatly. I see where you're coming from though. Maybe a gradual increase rather than 10 fold increase off the bat.

I kinda felt the same way when our licensing fee went from $35 to $90 for a super combo/ hunting and fishing and migratory stamp
then I saw how it made sense in the long run .
things aren’t cheap now days, even state F&G suffered inflation after 2020 election, rising licensing is inevitable

 

[Ben Lamb]

This is a total problem. The price residents pay for a deer or elk license is ridiculous. A one day lift ticket at Big Sky is $200. Why is it that a bull elk license good for half the year, is 10% of that? A high school kid can work for one hour and make enough to buy an elk license.

FWP isn't hurting for cash, so not sure why you would raise resident pricing, although yes, it is a ridiculously inexpensive when a sportsman's w/bear costs less than a tank of gas in a full-sized truck.

 

[rogerthat]

This is a total problem. The price residents pay for a deer or elk license is ridiculous. A one day lift ticket at Big Sky is $200. Why is it that a bull elk license good for half the year, is 10% of that? A high school kid can work for one hour and make enough to buy an elk license.

I would pay more for resident licenses for sure. However Big Sky California prices don't mean crap for the rest of us in Montana. That lift ticket was overpriced 15 years ago. I buy a season pass for $300 at different less "classy" ski hill.

FWP isn't hurting for cash, so not sure why you would raise resident pricing, although yes, it is a ridiculously inexpensive when a sportsman's w/bear costs less than a tank of gas in a full-sized truck.

This +1 They are lacking effective leadership right now.

 

[Gerald Martin]

A little off-topic, so forgive me, but money has always ruled our society (and hunting)... We keep talking about solutions, and one thing I have yet to see be brought up is an increase in the price of resident tag prices. Personally, I can't compete with the big money out of staters alone, but collectively I believe we can make a difference.

(my numbers might be off a little, but you get the point)

I currently pay $20 for an elk tag and the currently funded management programs seem to be lacking in many ways. What if my resident tag became $200... what "tools" could be afforded then?

I certainly can't answer this for the entire Montana population, but a $200 elk tag is not going to slow me down one second, yet the revenue generated for the state is tenfold.

If we don't like these topics coming up, over and over again... We are going to need to fight fire with fire.

The construction company I work for has a track record of providing crappy quality at inflated prices. Our motto is, “ If the customer is willing to pay for it, it’s good enough.”

Out of frustration over the quality of our product, our current and prospective clients have decided to pay us double our current fees out of the belief that higher pay will change our standards of quality. *

*( Another modern Montana parable with no factual basis except to make the point that increased reward for poor performance that stems from low standards is highly unlikely to raise the standard of quality.)

 

[BuzzH]

FWP isn't hurting for cash, so not sure why you would raise resident pricing, although yes, it is a ridiculously inexpensive when a sportsman's w/bear costs less than a tank of gas in a full-sized truck.

To place a reasonable value on wildlife.

The public perception of how wildlife is valued is what the state tells them they're worth.

Sad reality is, pretty tough for many to see how the state of Montana values the worth of an elks life if all they say it's worth is a frickin $20 bill.

Montana values elk equivalent to 5 gallons of gas or a ticket to watch a shitty movie.

That's speaks volumes.

 

[Buffs35]

When you have 50-80 head of elk running thru a field of organic grain, then tell me feel free to tell me about it.

Is elk chit not organic?