Building a barn and getting horses.

[marksjeep]

We've been using these heater-less waterers and have had zero issues with them in 3 years.

https://www.horsedrinker.com/products/horse-donkey-mule-waterer/

 

[Sytes]

Got back in and it seems, just as quick, back out.

Outfitter Supply is a great source for soft/hard panniers, tack, etc.

Saddlebags, Packing Equipment, Tack and Equine Gear | TrailMax

Discover tack, saddles, mule, and horse pack saddles and gear at Outfitters Supply. Shop our Montana tested Trailmax saddlebags.

www.outfitterssupply.com

Though used tack/estate sales can be another route.
How I miss horses though considering life's twists n turns, for ourselves it was good to step out.

Along with previously listed, before $, pay a vet to examine. There are FAR too many horse traders out there!
We went through a few horse that had navicular, teeth /gum issues, etc...

Age and seasoned Backcountry experience play against each other, unless you're spending big $$$ for well trained.

Personal fan of mustangs - sure footed and colic not an issue, etc.

Wish you the best! A skilled friend is gold when wading through the start to finish of setting up for horses.

We also trenched a line 7' deep with excavator about 160' to route water and electricity. Worked great.

 

[mtmuley]

Always had horses growing up. Never any gaited or purebred just grade horses. My Dad always picked them looking for a good mountain horse. Get them in the hills as much as possible. Introduce them to things that might cause a wreck in the hills. Get them used to dead elk. Size was never an issue as my best gelding was about 16 hands. It's mostly temperament for mountain horses. Good luck. I just like having friends with horses these days. mtmuley

 

[406dn]

I just like having friends with horses these days. mtmuley

This might be the perfect way to have horses.

 

[mtmuley]

This might be the perfect way to have horses.

Sometimes I miss having them. My daughter was allergic so I was off the hook. I have great memories of some of the horses we had. Bulletproof in the hills. mtmuley

 

[300stw]

had over 30 head horses and mules over the years, last pair a mules i had packed 19 bulls on them , using wade tree saddles, from 2 to 17 miles most off trail,
i have pack saddles boxes. panniers ect, but my old saddle with some rings and 2 extra ropes, has always worked,,,
lot of ways to skin a cat, i know i am building a new place on the west side and a new string of mules will be high on the list, too hurt to use my back to pack elk,,,

 

[Southern Elk]

This might be the perfect way to have horses.

I’ve had friends that were gracious enough to pack out elk for me and I am grateful. However, that doesn’t give you the full experience.

 

[406dn]

I’ve had friends that were gracious enough to pack out elk for me and I am grateful. However, that doesn’t give you the full experience.

You are correct. If you really enjoy horses, owning them is far more satisfying. I did not know going before owning one how much I'd come to like them.

I truly enjoy the journey together a horse and human can share. Over time, each learns most everything about the other. Especially, I like how horses teach me how to slow down, be calm, be kind, be the leader, etc.

Churchill stated that no hour of life is lost that is spent in the saddle. Maybe not exactly accurate, but I enjoy every minute spent riding.

 

[mtmuley]

I truly enjoy the journey together a horse and human can share.

I had one gelding that my Father broke and gave to me when I was 11. Me and that horse were inseparable for a lot of years. He did anything I asked. Those kind of horses are rare but I am glad I had one. mtmuley

 

[Southern Elk]

We’ve already mentioned Smoke Elser’s book Packin’ in on Mules and Horses. Is there any other required reading? Maybe some YouTube videos?

 

[BrentD]

I've done the horse barn/shop thing once and I'm about to do it again. I'm interested in seeing your set up. If you have floor plans, or some sort of drawings, I'd love to see them.

What's in the shop? Mine is a full woodshop. 24x25 gets it done for me. I have a couple thousand bft of lumber up in the loft along with a year's worth of hay for two lazy horses.

Where will you store the hay?

FWIW, we use a Nelson Waterer in a run-in. Our animals are never stalled. Having it in the run-in makes things much simpler in a blizzard.

We have a Haflinger and an Icelandic. Both are short, sturdy as all get out, and well furred for the worst of weather. Great tempermants too. The Haflinger has dinner plate sized feet, which would seem to be an advantage in rough country and variable footing.

This was from a few years ago, testing Rusty for willingness to deal with bloody bags of mule deer. He really doesn't care about much of anything. But he will never pack an elk for me, sadly.

I look forward to following this since we are about to do it again.

 

[Southern Elk]

I've done the horse barn/shop thing once and I'm about to do it again. I'm interested in seeing your set up. If you have floor plans, or some sort of drawings, I'd love to see them.

What's in the shop? Mine is a full woodshop. 24x25 gets it done for me. I have a couple thousand bft of lumber up in the loft along with a year's worth of hay for two lazy horses.

Where will you store the hay?

FWIW, we use a Nelson Waterer in a run-in. Our animals are never stalled. Having it in the run-in makes things much simpler in a blizzard.

We have a Haflinger and an Icelandic. Both are short, sturdy as all get out, and well furred for the worst of weather. Great tempermants too. The Haflinger has dinner plate sized feet, which would seem to be an advantage in rough country and variable footing.

This was from a few years ago, testing Rusty for willingness to deal with bloody bags of mule deer. He really doesn't care about much of anything. But he will never pack an elk for me, sadly.

I look forward to following this since we are about to do it again.

View attachment 252054

I had a 50’x30’ shop with a 12’ lean to at my old place in MS. I might do the same thing again. Part of the reason for the shop is parking vehicles and the skid steer. I’m a contractor and have a lot of tools that are currently in storage. I’m going to insulate it and put in a wood stove. I would like some dedicated space for woodworking and welding.

I haven’t drawn it up yet, but I’m thinking 2 - 10’x10’ roll up doors on the front of the shop. A man door in the front and one in the back to go out to the lean to without walking around.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I’ve had friends that were gracious enough to pack out elk for me and I am grateful. However, that doesn’t give you the full experience.

I am willing to be your friend that let’s you pack out elk for me…

Have spots, need friend with horses.

 

[Wallydeuce]

I had horses for 17 years and have the X-rays to prove it.

 

[Pagosa]

I was the same way Southern Elk and got back into horses, but on a real limited budget. I bought my daughters horse from a neighbor for $1000 4/5 years ago, and she just needed work and is a great all around horse, she is 15 year old app/quarter grade horse. I bought two fillys in 2020 and we are currently training them, they are crosses and we have really worked on desensitized. We have had them since four month old and they are super calm, starting to ride/train them since they will be 3 in the spring.
They came from a 1800 ac ranch in southeast Montana that I have bought several horses from and being raised on a large open ranch where there is creek crossings, down logs, etc they know how to maneuver around the country, different from a horse raised in a small pasture. This rancher handles them from birth and they will know how to lead, load into a trailer, and stand tied for short periods. We pay from $750-$1200 and seem to turn out good, but they take daily work. I’m hoping to do some short leading trips into the mountains next year and hopefully just packing out an elk/deer like the posters above. I really don’t want to lead an entire packstring and would be fine with just having a trail horse that can carry a lite camp, beer, rifle or half an elk.
Back to the budget I have pasture that they can graze for 5/6 months of the year, I do my own hoof trimming, vaccines, and built my barn from reclaimed materials for around $2/3k pre-Covid prices. The two dry lot corrals are the most expensive part at $110 per panel and I have 24 of them. I picked up left over fencing materials from pipelines in eastern Montana. So in saying that I’m still over 15k in horse stuff and haven’t got into the backcountry yet, but it has been a rewarding process and I wouldn’t change anything.

As far as tack most people in western Montana all use deckers. In Colorado we used sawbucks and panniers to pack elk. Deckers seem to have the advantage of packing weird shaped items but I’m not familiar with them. I plan to use my riding saddle and panniers and keep the load around 130 lbs.

There are people all around that have $20,000 to $40,000 In pasture pets that don’t get used that much. Up here supposedly broke horses are going from $5-10k, but there is a reason someone is selling them, probably bc they bucked, kicked, bite, can’t cross a creek, health, etc. No one is going to sell a good horse unless there are issues or they have money problems, getting a divorce, or getting rid of horses. I would take someone along that really knows horses like a good farrier, bc there are tons of scammers just like houndsmen. I bet in another two years a $5k horse will be $2k if/when the economy turns. It seems there is an entire industry on horses and a million different methods and it is money driven. I think we sometimes over-complicate things. I would encourage you to do it and you can make it whatever you want. Best successes and I hope this helps.

 

[Lilhowie83]

We’ve already mentioned Smoke Elser’s book Packin’ in on Mules and Horses. Is there any other required reading? Maybe some YouTube videos?

Packers Field Manual by Bob Hoverson is another great book.

Where in Montana are you? If you are close to Missoula, Jordan Knudsen of Heart Bar K Enterprises does a packing class every year in January or February. He taught with Smoke Elser for several years and has continued doing it since Smoke stopped during Covid.

I second a Decker Saddle. It is much more versatile than a sawbuck, and can be made to fit your horse or mule better. Plus you can still use panniers like on a sawbuck.

 

[BrentD]

I had a 50’x30’ shop with a 12’ lean to at my old place in MS. I might do the same thing again. Part of the reason for the shop is parking vehicles and the skid steer. I’m a contractor and have a lot of tools that are currently in storage. I’m going to insulate it and put in a wood stove. I would like some dedicated space for woodworking and welding.

I haven’t drawn it up yet, but I’m thinking 2 - 10’x10’ roll up doors on the front of the shop. A man door in the front and one in the back to go out to the lean to without walking around.

Somewhere I'll find pics or plans for ours. We have a 12x24 "lean to" on the west side that holds tractor and firewood, a 14x24 run in on the east side for the ponies and a 25x24 shop in the middle that has a 10' biswing door. I don't really care for the look of overhead doors.

I'll say this about a wood stove in the shop. A wood stove is our primary heat in the house. But in the shop, esp, a wood shop, it takes a lot of space, it's a bit of a fire hazard, and most of all, it would take forever to heat up the shop given the cold concrete slab and cold steel tools and machines. If you have vehicles in there it will take 3x forever to heat up. Before I retired, I used to go out there after dinner and want it warm. NOW. 'cuz I don't have forever to wait. Also, setting the overhead garage heater on a very low setting helped keep corrosion from condensation at bay. I have never regretted that decision.

There are things I would do different however. No stairs to the hayloft in the shop next time! In fact, no hay in the loft. I'm getting too old for that stuff. I have a shoulder that will be repaired on Monday because of it, in fact.

If you do a loft, plan on doors and cupola to increase ventilation for whatever you put up there. We got that right.

 

[44hunter45]

Water: If the creek flows year round do that. Nothing worse than screwing with hoses and tank heaters when it’s -30.

Tack: I much prefer Deckers. I’ve never heard anyone say sawbucks are easier, that’s a new one to me. Sawbucks are probably cheaper. Deckers are about as easy as it gets for slinging weird loads.

Horses: pick disposition first. I never liked really big horses. If the downhill pack slips and your horse is 16.5 hands, that sucks. Don’t get hung up on sturdy. My best pack horse was 14 hands and I paid 400 bucks for him.

Look for good withers and sound feet. Beyond that, straight legs and a good hip. You aren’t going to put enough miles on a decent confirmation horse to notice. If you were doing 100 miles a week, maybe.

If you’re going to do gaited they all have to be. You’ll pay more for it.

All that.

Deckers and panniers are the way to go. I've used sawbucks and deckers both, definitely prefer deckers. I've tried cruppers and breechings both. Prefer breechings. I know I've never wanting anything down there, IYKWIM.

I use a breeching on saddle horse in steep country, but I think nothing beats a good withers and a double rigged saddle. I hate having a saddle tip forward. I grew up on roping horses, all we had were roping saddles. I still look at a single rigged saddle and shake my head.

I only have one horse left now. It's really a drag keeping his trough full if it's below freezing at all. It's close enough to power that I can run a cord for the tank heater, but dragging out the hose and coiling it up every time is a PITA. When it gets REALLY cold, the water will freeze before it gets to the end of the hose and now you have a 60 feet of straight frozen hose. First you fill the 70 Gallon trough with buckets. That's 7 trips with two five gallon buckets assuming you don't fall on your butt in the snow and cover yourself in water. After you get the trough filled, you have to try to get the hose coiled again without breaking it. Only the most expensive hoses will be flexible that cold, so you will probably snap it in two or more pieces. If you do get it coiled, you will have to bring it in a heated place for it to thaw. I use our mudroom shower.

I had the under valve system, which is supposed to never freeze and be automatic. It wasn't. If you don't have every inch of pipe above frost line wrapped in heat tape and foam, it will freeze and break. You won't know until the well pumps out.

There may be good winter watering systems out there, but hoses are not one of them.

Unlike @JLS , I like big horses. At least for a saddle horse. I think they have a smoother gait and I'm a big load to carry. My dad was a big mule fan, but they have gotten crazy expensive. I admit the extra load capacity on a big pack horse may not be worth the food bill.

When my brother was packing out of Huntington Lake, a lot of their pack stock were big warmbloods. But there is no blowup like a big horse blowup. Most of my wrecks have been self-inflicted.

If you have never had horses in snow country, foot care is an education as well. Snow builds up on their feet like volley balls and you have to watch for it. Snow sticks to steel shoes, they are a no-no in wintertime for snow country.

When we landed in Idaho 30 years ago I planned to build a big string. I'm glad now that I didn't. I've never had more than 3 horses here.
Tack Rooms:
It amazes me how a creature as dumb as a porcupine can weasel into a tack room. They are crazy for salt though. I had one chew through a T1-11 door to get in. They can ruin a ton of valuable tack in one night. I got into saddlery after I had to replace the riggings and stirrup leathers on a whole room full of saddles. I keep all my tack inside the basement now. My neighbor uses a Conex Box. I really like that.

Hold on to your wallet, but enjoy!

 

[44hunter45]

I had one gelding that my Father broke and gave to me when I was 11. Me and that horse were inseparable for a lot of years. He did anything I asked. Those kind of horses are rare but I am glad I had one. mtmuley

My first horse was like this. It spoils you for sure. I've compared every horse since to him .

 

[Nick87]

Eating money and shittin work.