Brand new users asking for unit and draw advice.... conversation -

[bigdonniebrasco]

Is it just me or does it seem like that are more posts this year with new members (less than 5 posts) asking:

1. We are traveling from X, and looking for information on unit X.
2. Can someone explain the draw process for 0 points?

Now, I am NOT complaining especially since I was in the exact same boat 2 years ago and would not have had the success that I did without all of the stellar information I got from the collective awesomeness that are the HT members!!

It's a genuine question, because if it truly seems like there are more new members on here trying to get out West and hunt pronghorn, I am just wondering what the catalyst is.

Podcasts about hunting?
Point creep?
Tag prices?

Or, maybe these types of posts happen at this rate every spring.

Just trying to start a conversation.

Thanks!
Don

 

[MN_Bowhunter4]

From what I've seen on other sites it's a pretty typical thing and I think it's twofold. We are in the dead of winter and drawings are approaching, so a lot of people are dreaming of getting out west for the first time. That, coupled with the fact that antelope are a good starting point for western hunting I think brings people asking questions. A quick google search of "XX state antelope hunting" returns many threads on forums such as this. Also, point systems can be very confusing for those folks who don't typically deal with them in their home state.

I know I've certainly been there! And will be there again I am sure.

 

[Elite7]

I can't say that I have noticed it more than usual. If it has increased I would think it is due the following:

1. Economic growth
2. Increase of limited Public Land/ Private Land - Mainly a midwest and eastern problem. I did the whole deer lease thing one year and decided it wasn't worth it. I can go hunt elk, mule deer, and antelope for the cost of what leases are going for here in MO.
3. Social Media - We are seeing more and more promotion of western hunting and episodes/ videos of DIY hunts. Things like gohunt and onxmaps are making it easier for us non residents.

I think we will continue to see an increase in non resident applications. The more support and use of public land by new hunters will only help keep those lands public.

 

[bigdonniebrasco]

Both very good points!

And, I'm glad my post was taken as intended and not as a complaint.

I'll be that guy soon enough regarding Muley and Elk.

 

[MN_Bowhunter4]

Everyone was there once! Like Elite7 said, the more support for public lands and hunting the better.

 

[MN Public Hunter]

Here are my 2 cents worth and I'm sure certain people will agree it's only worth 2 cents

1. This has been this way since I joined and I'm sure before I was here. People find the site and instead of a little research they ask the basic questions. It does not help that EVERY single DNR/G&F website is 100% different and it's very irritating that some are actually so useless you might as well get on the phone and good luck getting hold of someone. Many are hard to navigate and find what you are looking for.

2. Some people are just lazy....

3. People don't want to spend thousands of dollars to just go out and not see anything, so they use as many points of information they can find. I sure don't blame them. I just try to be as helpful as I can.

4. They might have searched on this website and others for the info, but alas search functions on this site as well as others are horrible.

5. There are none or not enough sticky posts explaining this information. Trust me, that would help A LOT. Example, Antelope section, 2 stickies...and neither useful to new people.

6. People hoard info and don't put it info in the posts, they just send PM's. Sure makes it hard for anyone to get info, so they have to ask.

I used to be one of those people that ignored these post as I did not have enough into to help, but now I do and I give them as much info as I have for all the hunts I have done and they can take it or leave it. I also try to give exact links to the info they need on the DNR/G&F sites and help explain what I can. In the end, we were all there at one point as NR hunters.

 

[480/277y]

I think posts like those are indicative of the type of hunters that write them. Ex: a guy that has already done research, has a few units picked that he has a chance to draw with or w/o the points he has , and then asks a few specific questions, will be a different cat than the guy that puts no effect in and is looking for all the answers.

What always got me were the guys that fall over themselves to give good info on a public forum.
I think that is just stupid. If you want to give out that kind of info , do it in a pm. With today's
Social media outlets , it's so easy to spot burn a unit.
Not so much the super limited say Wy antelope units 60,61
But those decent second choice units that guys building points need to
hunt in off years.

 

[Keeptrying]

I just wouldn't want to hunt in a unit that received a bunch of online press. Draw odds would be effected. Hunter numbers increased. I would rather hunt in a location people don't know about.

 

[Idahoarcheryhunter]

some people just want a handout and a public forum like this can be an easy place to get info.

 

[Addicting]

I was wondering about this a few weeks ago and decided I should be thankful as I was in that same boat last year. I did a lot of homework and HT members guided me thru the process which inturned worked out to 1 more public advocate. So now I just welcome them and help where I can to return the favor and hope that some will stick around.

 

[480/277y]

I been hunting a unit that is limited public/limited access/100% draw. Building points. I have taken nephews, brother and two friends there and have done well. After my last hunt there , I wanted to scout a unit that 3 years ago took 6 points. Which I had. This unit comes up often. Mostly by people who have never been there ,that just regurgitate what they read someplace . Had I burned my points there I would had been mad. I was underwelmed with the unit.

Bottom line, go hunt a unit with tags you can draw. Hunt smart and you will have fun. Save a few days to scout the unit you want to spend points on. Following some color coded unit map , taking advise on the Internet or old info is a sure way to be disapointed .

 

[LopeHunter]

No issue with someone asking. They typically will get specific information that is worth every penny they paid for it.

I tell people that want to go hunt and not be shoulder to shoulder with people that they need to answer a question: Are you willing to make a 20 year commitment to hunting out West? If yes, I tell them to flip a coin and subscribe to Epic or Huntin' Fool as the overview of each state and the unit suggestions along with points needed, odds to draw and harvest stats are nice to see in one place and the arrival of the e-mag will remind you to get your application taken care of.

If the person says they just want a trip or two out west to get an elk or deer or pronghorn and see the vistas then I tell then the pronghorn can be done within a year with a drawn tag and can even get a party of 4 or 6 hunters draws so can be a family or buddies adventure which can be accomplished in under a week door to door from any state in the Lower 48. Deer and elk are more problematic. Success rates are lower and the options to get 4 or 6 tags without being headed for a hunt with orange hats on every ridge and an atv racing up and down trails 12 hours a day is a tough riddle to solve. You could buy landowner tags in NM for elk and have an okay bull elk hunt if includes access to private land with elk on it. You could get a 0 point or OTC bull elk tag and go with an outfitter which is not a bad idea if all you have is whitetail-rated gear and optics. A mule deer buck hunt in CO is an option with landowner tag with private land access or you could do the outfitter route.

I played basketball in school with a buddy that is still is in the Midwest and is now a doctor and he wanted a dream hunt out West. Relatively speaking, I am the expert when we get together at reunions there in the Midwest so I walked him through options for scratching out a check to buy a landowner tag or hiring an outfitter on a 0 point tag or OTC tag. Dialed him in on a bull elk rifle hunt, a buck mule deer hunt and a pronghorn hunt and he mulled the options then went with a guided pronghorn hunt on private land in WY on a tag he could realistically draw that next year. He drew and had a blast. Did not buy any gear for the hunt as could use his whitetail gear and rifle. Drove to the hunt, slept in a motel, took hot showers, ate hot food and had a fantastic adventure.

Many of us, if told we had one hunt left, would not pick a guided WY pronghorn hunt on private land. We have typically built up 100s of points for hunts and could draw one or two any year we wanted but are using point savers for now. We would probably want to go on our own and hunt public or hunt with one family member or friend. Camp at the trailhead or pack in a mile or so. Use our experience from several prior elk or deer or pronghorn hunts to put together a solid Day 1 and Day 2 plan. Maybe scout some before the season opens. But, that is not realistic for the hunter that for years has climbed up in a stand over a corn field after walking 100 yards from the barn where parked the truck. The resulting adventure would be a nice measure of character and stick-to-it-ness but most likely end without a harvest and a long drive back home with an empty cooler rattling around the truck bed.

The adventure out West has gotten costly so an annual trip driving 2 days from back East is not the option for most hunters anymore. Very few OTC tags with even a 20% harvest rate and figure unguided non-residents harvest at 50% or less of the resident rate due to spending fewer days in the unit and lack of scouting days and lack of prior experience and no postman telling them about the nice buck they saw crossing the road last week up by Big Creek.

Buck mule deer and bull elk hunting can be humbling for a whitetail hunter and the learning curve can be tough and the tags are more expensive than pronghorn.

So, I try to guide hunters venturing out West for the first time to take a hard look at WY pronghorn. Nothing resembling a pronghorn wanders around in the mountains of Kentucky or the soybean fields of Iowa. Tags for NR about as easy to get as any tag out West and a harvest rate that is often above 50% even on 0 point units. Years later, they can tell the grandkids about the time they headed way out West to hunt. Might even being able to point up at the horns above the fireplace as tell the story.

 

[VikingsGuy]

5. There are none or not enough sticky posts explaining this information. Trust me, that would help A LOT. Example, Antelope section, 2 stickies...and neither useful to new people.

This +1

 

[VAspeedgoat]

As mentioned earlier, I don't think its any more this year than last. I usually will point a person in the direction to find the I.formation for themselves because you never know if a person is completely computer literate or not. Finding things on the web is hard if you don't have experience. If its obvious they have put in the homework and are just finalizing things then I'll send a pm so unit data isn't put out for the whole world.

I find that when I have put in the time and effort and feel confident in a place and a plan, it really makes me feel better to have a more experienced hunter say yay/nay to the plan. Driving 2500 miles and spending hard earned money is easier to do when you have a little reassurance. For me, I never know if things will change on the farm and a trip will be my last out west. It just helps to bounce ideas of locals and experts.

 

[js2397]

I can tell you from my perspective of being a new member it comes down to getting reliable information. I started out searching websites, state DNR pages, reading articles, and then narrowed down my search. After that I have found 3 pretty solid forums where I have read some first hand reports. After all of that I have asked some specific questions to narrow down even more. The good thing is there are lots of helpful people on here and it's greatly appreciated.

 

[88man]

I just think we are really living in an information age. People or friends get info from social media and all the blogs etc and want to grow it and thats great. I like to help other hunters when ever I can and I feel good when after a discussion about a hunt or unit I get an email with a pic and a thank you. I would really be shocked if I added up all my google earth time, map time google time on some of the hunts I was on I think that makes it even more rewarding. I see no problem with someone wanting to get pointed in the right direction when starting their research. Heck many times I have scouted units for a friend after one of my hunts, explain to your wife or girlfriend after you killed your elk in wyoming that you are now in colorado scouting and not on your way home.

 

[Flatland Crusoe]

1) Wyoming saw a 25% Increase in 2017 Applications so that is as concrete a reason as you will find.

2) While the number of hunters is going down nationally, it seems a lot of the remaining guys are becoming more serious about days afield and traveling.

3) The information is out there and its easier than ever to figure the logistics. GoHunt and ONX solve a lot of the issues that used to mean ordering state game guide books and BLM/USFS topo maps. We live in a world where you can find the best restaurant or resort half a world away with 2 minutes on Tripadvisor, planning a hunt isn't a lot different.

4) The "Let Me Google That For You" factor is strong. People can't search threads well, don't read reoccuring posts or think that somehow most antelope hunts in Wyoming play out differently that the adjacent unit. I have really scaled back answering pronghorn posts because I say the same thing over and over.

 

[Mitchellmountain]

I know I have been very thankful for the help I’ve gotten on this site. People really stepped up and helped when info was needed. I have hunted Canada, pa, ny, Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado and idaho and have to say Wyoming draw process is the most confusing. Their website does not have the user friendly feel that the other places I’ve hunted seem to have. It’s early in the process and I’m gathering a base of information, haven’t called any biologists yet and the good people on this site have given me a pretty good starting point. I will echo what one person said, it’s the dead of winter and not much going on, it’s easy to let the mind drift to adventures out west. Half the fun is in the planning, and getting gear ready.

 

[406LIFE]

4) The "Let Me Google That For You" factor is strong. People can't search threads well, don't read reoccuring posts or think that somehow most antelope hunts in Wyoming play out differently that the adjacent unit. I have really scaled back answering pronghorn posts because I say the same thing over and over.

I really enjoy helping people get into hunting, find new areas, and learn how to figure it all out. HOWEVER, I do wish new guys would take a moment and search the forums for their answers first. Randy has talked about this on his podcast a few times; don't ask where to hunt in unit X when this is your first post. Get involved in the community here, welcome people, BS with the guys. Contribute before you consume. THEN you'll find more willingness to say look here, go there.

 

[MNElkNut]

In the past 3 years, I have researched 4 new places to hunt (3 for elk and 1 for pronghorn). It is a daunting task. It really is. I kept coming back to, "I don't know what I don't know". I did reasonably well on the elk hunts and the pronghorn hunt worked out in the end, but I was disappointed in the unit I chose even after a ton of research. My biggest takeaway from the pronghorn unit was limited public access is one thing. Limited public access combined with a unit that featured lots of land that doesn't hold pronghorns was really challenging. 4 days of hunting/scouting revealed 2 accessible public spots that held goats. So my takeaway is this, to do it again, I would throw out as big of a net as I possibly could (meaning multiple hunting forums) to see if I could knit together as much info as possible. Maybe that is what is happening. Guys are expanding their research.

By the way, if anybody wants to know what NOT to do, I could be a wealth of information!