Bozeman Saves the World?

[Big Fin]

Big Fin and Buzz,

About the most civil discussion I have seen.

Can you feel the love?

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.

God bless our troops and please say a prayer for Sgt. Zach Cole, my brother, who is now back in Iraq for his third tour.



Nemont

Nemont:

Prayers sent for him and his fellow soldiers. Tell him that there are many who appreciate all he is doing and the sacrafices he and his family are making. Tell him that many are making Christmas wishes for him and his comrades. If there is anything others could help with, I hope the request would be made. God Bless him and all the others.

And Merry Christmas to you, Sgt. Cole, and your families.


Feel the love? No, I don't. At least not until Buzz gives me the GPS coords to the spot where he shot that big Wyoming elk with his bow last fall. Give me those coords, and I will feel loved.

 

[kiwi hunta]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Big Fin,

What is the "solution"?

I don't have "The Solution."

I have a solution, get the fugg out of a country that doesn't want you hump, Gee there are plenty of countries around the world that would appreciate help , Zimbabwe, or Nigeria are just an example, I mean if the USA was invaded by a country to quell say .......... the Montana militia and then decide to stay around to help "adjust" the country, would you accept that as a US citizen or organise some sort of separatist movement ????, Gee guys do you read or access any info outside the Washington Post, New York times or CNN.????

The USA has 6% of the worlds population, how many % of the worlds population agree with the USA occupation of foreign land, Fugg all fellas, you are not the global policeman anymore.......... get over it.

Happy Christmas guys
Jeff.

 

[noharleyyet]

I have a solution, get the fugg out of a country that doesn't want you (humpers)....quote kiwi hunta

SYDNEY (AFP) - Australian prime minister-elect Kevin Rudd said Friday he would pull the country's 550 combat troops out of Iraq by the middle of next year, marking a significant shift in Canberra's role in the conflict.

...voila, Cheers mate!

 

[A-con]

I have a solution, get the fugg out of a country that doesn't want you hump, .

Oh really ? Would you please explain that to the current government of Iraq ? Maybe to the Kurds ? Or the thousands people who have not been tortured, raped or murdered since the U.S. moved in

Gee there are plenty of countries around the world that would appreciate help , Zimbabwe, or Nigeria are just an example, .

Oh yea, like that wouldn’t turn into another chit storm, with Monday morning quarterbacks telling us what we did wrong, after the fact

The USA has 6% of the worlds population, how many % of the worlds population agree with the USA occupation of foreign land,.

The rest of the world has proven it’s self so totally ineffective, and corrupt at dealing with global problems that it really doesn’t matter what they think, does it.

Fugg all fellas, you are not the global policeman anymore.......... get over it..

Since (exactly) when ? If not the U.S. then who, Australia ? Maybe the U.N. could go in and deal with things if they aren’t to busy stealing money and hiring 11 year old “housekeepers”.

I don't mean to sound touchy, but all the second guessing has become tedious. All the politicians, press and world leaders who complain about the U.S. involvement in Iraq are the same ones who would be wringing their hand and crying "why didn't somebody do something" if President Bush had sat back and done nothing.

Merry Christmas, Kiwi Hunter.

 

[Nut]

Gee guys do you read or access any info outside the Washington Post, New York times or CNN.????

Jeff they do not read or watch those. They consider that the liberal media. I think they only watch FoxNews and listen to Rush Limbaugh and that sort. As for reading......who knows.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Oh really ? Would you please explain that to the current government of Iraq ? Maybe to the Kurds ? Or the thousands people who have not been tortured, raped or murdered since the U.S. moved in

Uhhhhhh..... didn't Dubya have the former "current government" leader hanged? Isn't that what the problem is, a functioning soveriegn government that Dubya didn't like was toppled, and Dubya's hand puppet replacements have proved just as inept as his own Administration. How many thousands have been tortured, raped and murderded SINCE the US moved in? Why do you think the murder rates have gone down since Dubya's War of Terror rolled into Iraq?

Oh yea, like that wouldn’t turn into another chit storm, with Monday morning quarterbacks telling us what we did wrong, after the fact

A-Con, take a look at Dubya's Coalition of "less than willing" and you will see many were telling Dubya that it was a stupid idea in 2002. It ain't Monday Morning qb'ing if it happens in advance.

The rest of the world has proven it’s self so totally ineffective, and corrupt at dealing with global problems that it really doesn’t matter what they think, does it.

What a naive view of the world. You should probably get out a bit more. Do you really think the US can rule the world and spread its' idealogical beliefs around the world? Do you even think the US should?

I don't mean to sound touchy, but all the second guessing has become tedious. All the politicians, press and world leaders who complain about the U.S. involvement in Iraq are the same ones who would be wringing their hand and crying "why didn't somebody do something" if President Bush had sat back and done nothing.

I think Kiwi showed you where the US is doing nothing, and you don't care. The only place you and Dubya care about is a place with Oil. Dubya's War of Terror should actually have been called Dubya's War for Oil. You don't see Dubya caring what is happening in Darfur.

 

[sreekers]

Ok, I don't usually get involved in these, but here goes.

1. We as the United States are currently the world's largest super power, and therefore, whether we wanted it or not we are expected to police the world. If we don't then we won't stay in that position. It is a historical fact, every super power has had to do that to some degree. Now did we pick the right place to police, I don't know.

2. Money is king. We have a lot of it here in this country, and people are going to hate us for it. With the world going to a more and more world wide economic system it is going to make it tougher and tougher to keep that money here. That in turn is going to create more conflict and more problems for our government.

3. Now getting to our President. There is one major difference between him and all of the rest of the Presidents that have come before him. He is not a lawyer, he is the first President to have an MBA rather than a degree in law. This means he is going to run the govt. like a business rather than from the moral law/interpretive law standpoint that we are so used to. In some cases this served him well, but for the most the country was far from ready for that type of administration, and it has blown up in his face.

4. The stupidity that most of you credit the President with is what actually got him elected. A couple years ago I wrote a paper on the PR Campaign that Bush employed to get him into office. Well his use of everyday language the way that most Americans do was viewed as a relief from the elitist talk that we get from so many politicians. Well that said, a lot of people liked him because he felt like one of us.

5. Ok, I have a hard time with people saying get out of Iraq and go where the really need it. If I remember right things have not gone well when we have intervened in Africa. Somalia did not go well, and we left there as well.

6. The problem really is this, what are we willing to stomach? What are we willing to finish out? If we left Iraq how long would it be until we were asked to go back and keep peace? If we left Iraq and went to Darfur as peacekeepers, would the American people be willing to stay there until we get the job done? I hate to say it, but I think the answer would be no. We are a country that until World War 2 preferred to practice Isolationism. Unfortunately we should have learned that will never happen with as much wealth as we have here.

7.The solution is that there really isn't one that is short. Thats the problem, we live in a fast food society, and everybody wants it done quick. Well no matter where we go it will take years to help, even fix the problem.

 

[Big Fin]

Jose:

I took your bait and answered all your questions. Will you answer me these, knowing that my opinion are formed as I blame all politicians for not providing a solution and that I am hoping for leadership, not whining and finger pointing?

1. Why is this war "Dubya's war?"

2. Don't others who voted for it and funded have any blood on their hands, and if not, why?

3. In 2003, GW was probably less experienced in foreign affiars than any member on the House or Senate Intelligence Committees. Those committees and their members voted for the resolution authorizing this war. That was their chance to stand up. They didn't. Why is that these people who had served on these committees for many, many, years and had privy to all the intelligence information or disinformation as GW, are not being held accountable?

4. What is your solution?

I am asking these question out of curiousity and will not criticize any comments you provide.

Merry Christmas!

 

[JoseCuervo]

Jose:

I took your bait and answered all your questions. Will you answer me these, knowing that my opinion are formed as I blame all politicians for not providing a solution and that I am hoping for leadership, not whining and finger pointing?
!

1. Why is this war "Dubya's war?" !

Because he started it. America's War was a war against those who attacked us. And that war was/and is/ being fought in Afghanistan against a Taliban government that aided alQuaida (that attacked us). Unfortunately, Dubya has starved the military for resources to adequately prosecute America's War against binLaden and Company because of his decision to create his own personal War of Terror against Iraq and her people. When is the last time Dubya even mentioned binLaden and Afghanistan in his press conferences?

2. Don't others who voted for it and funded have any blood on their hands, and if not, why? !

Who brought the votes before Congress? The Minority Party Democrats or the Republican Leadership and Dubya? I am guessing if you go back in history to 2002, you will see it was Dubya and the GOP who were bringing the votes to Congress. And, if you also remember, the "intelligence" (remember the uranium "bought" in Africa? remember the "link" to Saddam of the 9-11 attacks?, etc...) was all carefully manipulated/hidden/created/etc... by Dubya and his Administration. Very little intelligence gathering is done by Congress, that is a function of the Executive branch of Government, which has Dubya as its' Chief. As an aside, people like Hillary are "paying" for their votes for Dubya's War of Terror as the campaign in 2008 wants to know why you voted FOR and now are AGAINST.

3. In 2003, GW was probably less experienced in foreign affiars than any member on the House or Senate Intelligence Committees. Those committees and their members voted for the resolution authorizing this war. That was their chance to stand up. They didn't. Why is that these people who had served on these committees for many, many, years and had privy to all the intelligence information or disinformation as GW, are not being held accountable? !

Good point, but not too important. If you remember 2002/20003 a Congressman who stood up would have been labled "anti-Troops" and "anti-American" by Dubya and the GOP. The Democrats were an ineffective minority party at that time, and, as they couldn't block the resolutions, most individual members were forced to vote FOR the resolutions or they would surely have lost the elections in 2002, or, 2004. This was also one of the times in our history where the Media failed to do its' job and question Dubya. We had too much cooperation with the Administration and lost the objectivity. Edmund Burke recognized the value of a Fourth Estate in the Seventeenth Century that for some reason our "liberal media" has lost their obligation to uphold.

4. What is your solution?

Adequately fund this Nation's Education System so that we don't have more generations grow up to be so stupid as to think that somebody like Dubya could be a leader. Additionally, adequately fund this Nation's Health Care System so that we can provide basic health care to our nation's most vulnerable. Perhaps adequately provide for our troops to effectively prosecute America's War in Afghanistan and provide adequate care and benefits to the troops as they return from the war. As for Iraq, adequately secure the Oil Fields and the pipelines for the oil to maintain them for America's benefit and then allow the rest of the country to look to Anarchy or to an international peacekeeping force.

I am asking these question out of curiousity and will not criticize any comments you provide.

Merry Christmas!

and a Happy Kwanza to you!

 

[A-con]

Jose, I started to respond to your comments line by line. But then, I realized that, as usual, your entire argument is based on fabrications. Why bother.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Jose, I started to respond to your comments line by line. But then, I realized that, as usual, your entire argument is based on fabrications. Why bother.

You think Dubya spreading his idealogical beliefs around the world is a fabrication?

You do live in a fantasy world.....

Get to sleep early tonight, as Santa will be at your house.....

 

[A-con]

A lump of coal for me and a new political outlook for you.
Merry Christmas, Jose.