Bozeman Crowd Please Avoid Map Brewery

[JohnCushman]

Dude, If you hunt then you have a dog in this fight. After these culls get done with trapping they are going after hound hunting, then bear and lion hunting. Don't think for one minute that you don't have a dog in this fight, if your a Montana sportsman.

That's how we lost spring bear hunting in Colorado, among other things...we have to stay vigilant...we're outnumbered

 

[The Hedgehog]

Years ago "Footloose Montana" was set up outside the Bozeman library. I tricked my very young son into stopping by to pick up free traps and get a trapping license. After a brief awkward (hilarious) conversation, my son walked away from the lady and said, "Well that's Lame!"

 

[Deleted member 28227]

The anti-trapping dudes were at the bottom of the M the other day, so you guys should probably avoid that trail. Lots of yuppies and people that drive Subarus.

Sidenote: If you can't learn to live in a world where people have conflicting viewpoints, I hear Alaska has some pretty great off-the-grid kind of areas.

I'll be at Map later today for the BHA Bozeman meeting. Hope to see some of you dudes there. They've been really supportive, FYI.

If you read the original post and look past the obvious frustration (I admit I came on strong) you will see my main issue was with the dissemination of inaccurate information. I'm all about debate over ethics and I think criticism is healthy, but if your going to let others use your business to promulgate propaganda I'm going to speak up. Along those lines I think it's important to bring up things we see as wrong and I still feel that it was a bad decision for Map Brewery to allow this group to solicited in their establishment. As has been bought up by numerous individuals on this thread and by others on the Polson thread this is an out of state special interest group whose interests run counter to sound wildlife management and are trying to circumvent the game management system in Montana but taking it to the legislature. The same tactic that has been used in other states to erode hunting privileges.

Dash has come on and said it was an oversight, I respect him for coming on and it has gone a long way to restore my opinion of his establishment. I am a member of BHA and am only missing the meeting because I'm out of town on a work trip.

I would like to apologize to Map for not being more diligent in tracking down the owner and getting a response. That said I think they owe it to themselves, their customers, and the hunting community they support to be more aware of what goes on in their premise.

 

[NKQualtieri]

If you read the original post and look past the obvious frustration (I admit I came on strong) you will see my main issue was with the dissemination of inaccurate information. I'm all about debate over ethics and I think criticism is healthy, but if your going to let others use your business to promulgate propaganda I'm going to speak up. Along those lines I think it's important to bring up things we see as wrong and I still feel that it was a bad decision for Map Brewery to allow this group to solicited in their establishment. As has been bought up by numerous individuals on this thread and by others on the Polson thread this is an out of state special interest group whose interests run counter to sound wildlife management and are trying to circumvent the game management system in Montana but taking it to the legislature. The same tactic that has been used in other states to erode hunting privileges.

Dash has come on and said it was an oversight, I respect him for coming on and it has gone a long way to restore my opinion of his establishment. I am a member of BHA and am only missing the meeting because I'm out of town on a work trip.

I would like to apologize to Map for not being more diligent in tracking down the owner and getting a response. That said I think they owe it to themselves, their customers, and the hunting community they support to be more aware of what goes on in their premise.

I appreciate this response--a LOT--but I think it's important to look at why hunters have knee-jerk reactions to opposition, as I've seen as it as a re-occurring theme in social media and beyond.

Antis are entitled to their opinions, to being in the same places that hunters are, and they have an equal say as hunters do in the democratic process. I was asked to sign the Footloose petition last wk, I declined. It had nothing to do with the space that I was in, the people around them, or the businesses nearby. I'll admit when I saw them at the M I found it interesting--they are clearly dumping $$ into their campaign right now--but what are hunters/trappers doing to mitigate? Where are people working to educate the non-hunting community on the beneficial aspects of hunting & trapping? Continually pointing at the fact that we dump $$ into conservation doesn't cut it, we need more nuance and more story. But I'm also not going to stand on a street corner and solicit signatures, for what it's worth.

It's not by boycotting a brewery that we make a difference. And I'd beg to differ that if he were promulgating hunting propaganda that appealed to the emotional biases of the majority that you'd be okay with that, because it fits your particular value system, so that point is actually moot. But how would we even begin to get an equal emotional reaction? A grip 'n grin surely doesn't incite the type of response we'd be looking for from the public. In fact, it probably incites the same response of the picture of that lynx in a foothold.

This is part of the reason that I am looking forward to creating a greater presence for BHA in the Bozeman community in particular, to be able to look at this problem of talking to the 80%ers in a way that is educational and constructive, and that gives them a narrative to help look at things like Footloose more critically. I find it somewhat ironic that the conversation is happening tonight at Map after having this conversation, but then again, that's probably because I am a hipster*.


*I am not a hipster.

 

[Irrelevant]

Antis are entitled to their opinions, to being in the same places that hunters are, and they have an equal say as hunters do in the democratic process. [/I]

Whoa, stop being radically rational.

 

[Flatland Crusoe]

*I am not a hipster.

Not social acknowledging being a hipster is also an important part of being a hipster.

 

[Ben Lamb]

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I cede to you that calling for a boycott on a hunting forum is preaching to the choir and not likely to produce any gains for hunters. That said, it did get map involved and hopefully they wont again allow their space to be hijacked and used to convince the 80% that a particular tactic is wrong base on bad information.

I think the problem the hunting community faces is that it is difficult to create an equal but opposite emotion reaction to hunting. There really isn't a foil to the animal caught in the trap picture for pro-hunting, at least none I can conjure up right now. What we do have are statistics and data that show that hunting is a successful management tool, sustainable harvest method, and economic driver, albeit small, for Montana. Footloose is undermining our fact driven argument with blatant lies. You can take the Montana trapping regs place them next to their flyer and line by line see that each statement is inaccurate. Case in point they argue that if you catch kill an endangered species in your trap you don't have to report it. I'm bummed that I can't come tonight to hear and take part in the discussion, love the meateater podcast you were on and have huge respect for your work. Hopefully there will be another gathering in the near future.

I make a point of hunting out of my corolla specifically because it's outside the hunting mainstream so I'm probably a hipster.

 

[jryoung]

Wait, hipster and trapping?

 

[Big Foot]

I would trust anywhere the BHA trusts, but that's just me

Please elaborate. BHA is a great organization doing great things for sportsman. Whats the deal Cushman?

 

[NKQualtieri]

I think you misread, Big Foot. He's saying that he does trust BHA.

 

[JohnCushman]

Please elaborate. BHA is a great organization doing great things for sportsman. Whats the deal Cushman?

The deal is that the BHA is a great organization doing great things for sportsman, so, therefore, I would trust where they chose to go for a meeting and support that facility. What was so difficult about that to comprehend?

 

[Zach]

The anti-trapping dudes were at the bottom of the M the other day, so you guys should probably avoid that trail. Lots of yuppies and people that drive Subarus.

Sidenote: If you can't learn to live in a world where people have conflicting viewpoints, I hear Alaska has some pretty great off-the-grid kind of areas.

I'll be at Map later today for the BHA Bozeman meeting. Hope to see some of you dudes there. They've been really supportive, FYI.

If memory serves, didn't you tell someone to GTF off this site for having a differing viewpoint?

 

[Rancho Loco]

Once again, going or not going to a brewery isn't going to influence this issue.

These people are going around the usual law making procedure for a reason.

We need to go through the law making procedure to stop them, while we can. FFS, everyone hates California, but nobody is willing to learn about what happened there. They'd rather boycott a local brewery.

 

[mixedbag]

wllm1313, you just explained how to foil their lies.You should have a table at Map and have a copy of the regs next to their propaganda and point out all the lies to the 80%.The NTA does spend a ton of money fighting these people and we beat them the last time they tried this.If your truly that concerned then please take some initiative of your own.Plenty of trappers have pics of trapped animals, which are clearly NOT suffering.They also have a lot of videos available of actual catches and how quickly an animal settles down and basically just goes to sleep.I personally think the NTA and FTA should be more pro-active rather then constantly being on defense.If you went on trapperman and ask for help to present facts to the 80% I'd bet you'd find many willing to help.
I don't believe the "no dog in the fight" argument.There are a lot of hunters against trapping with most being dog hunters.But,after they are done with the trappers they ALWAYS go after the hunters.Colorado and Cali are prime examples of their agenda.They know once something is taken away,no matter how small it may seem, that its next to impossible for us to get it back.So they chip away a little at a time,and try to burn up our resources.I think the BHA should be helping the trappers in this as well since its going after our right to trap public land.Make no mistake about it, they dislike all of us if you hunt ,trap or fish.So we should fight them as a group.Unfortunately most wont bother because they haven't gone after something you enjoy ;YET.These are the same people who fight any wolf harvest and their hope is that wolves take away the need for hunters.Trappers are successful at taking wolves and hurt their agenda and want us off public ground.They use endangered species as their ploy to get Joe public to agree;doing so with total false data and lies.I would have a VERY hard time wanting to support a business that would allow a group like Footloose in to spread their lies.As hunters, they should have been well aware what Footloose is all about

 

[Big Foot]

The deal is that the BHA is a great organization doing great things for sportsman, so, therefore, I would trust where they chose to go for a meeting and support that facility. What was so difficult about that to comprehend?

Sorry Cushman...misread your post. I thought you were knocking BHA. :W:

 

[JohnCushman]

Sorry Cushman...misread your post. I thought you were knocking BHA. :W:

S'all good....I'm actually renewing my membership in May...I think that's when I'm due to expire