Bivy vs tarp; or a combo

[TrickyTross]

Well, we thought we could do 2 years between elk hunts out west, but I was wrong. So, we are looking how to best capitalize on about 6 straight days of hunting with maybe a bonus half day on the front or back end. We had a base camp we hunted from last year. it was great, but we were up 2 hours before sun light and barely made it to an area to glass. which has led to exploring the spike camp or bivy option.

So, here are my questions:
pros and cons of a bivy?
pros cons of a tarp?
is it crazy to combine them?

Ultimately looking to be more mobile and able to be higher than the elk in the area we hunt, versus being below them and glassing and hiking up to them.

 

[mtnrunner260]

I think you are crazy to not combine them.
It does allow you to be mobile and really saves on packing and unpacking camp.

 

[TrickyTross]

I think you are crazy to not combine them.
It does allow you to be mobile and really saves on packing and unpacking camp.

What is your set up?

 

[GAbearclaw]

I used a bivy and tarp for years but have since gone to a Big Agnes UL2 Fly Creek, it is about 2lbs so lighter than my OR advanced bivy + tarp, and more roomy/ comfy.

I also went to a Sierra Designs quilt instead of a regular bag and that cut a bit of weight too. For glassing intense hunts, I added a REI little packable camp chair and it was worth its weight in gold!

Good luck, but even as a smaller guy being in a bivy during a long storm is awful. The tarp allows you to sit up, but still not as nice as having a tent, especially when many tents are lighter than the bivy/ tent combo.

My bivy has its place, but when combined with a tarp the tent is lighter and more comfy... YMMV

 

[Backcountry Hunter 2]

I run a Kifaru Supertarp. So far I have loved it. I don't use a bivy with it, but have contemplated it.

 

[2rocky]

Bivy/tarp is a fair weather setup for me. It enough to keep the rain off from an early season thunderstorm. But if I'm going to be coming back to camp wet and or cold I need to have more to cut the wind and hold the heat to dry out. Sure, a July or August snowstorm above 8k is a possibility but pretty unlikely. First half of September is about the limit for no back up shelter. October is usually pretty rainy snowy about half the time.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

A tent like the MSR Hubba Hubba or Big Anges Copper Spur is a good option as well, just as lite as a bivy or tarp when used with just the rain fly and more versatile for late season, not to mention bug protection.

 

[sn.outdoors]

I personally do not like tents. I think they're too heavy for the space you get compared to a tarp, and they don't really provide more protection than and tarp that's setup properly. I've spent hundreds of nights in the field under a simple standard issue military poncho and have been completely fine. Now that I've moved on from that poncho, my setup for mild weather is an Enlightened Equipment Recon bivy(6oz) and either a Kifaru Sheep Tarp(9oz) or a Warbonnet Outdoors Mamajamba Tarp(12oz). The recon/mamajamba combo only weighs 18oz and gives me plenty of room for a pack explosion at the end of the day. The sheep tarp is slightly smaller, but made of much tougher material, so I'll bring it with me if I know the wind is going to be bad.

If it's going to be cold, wet, and miserable, that's when I pack my kifaru supertarp and stove. But I think a lightweight tarp and ultralight bivy would be perfect for what your needs seem to be.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I personally do not like tents. I think they're too heavy for the space you get compared to a tarp, and they don't really provide more protection than and tarp that's setup properly. I've spent hundreds of nights in the field under a simple standard issue military poncho and have been completely fine. Now that I've moved on from that poncho, my setup for mild weather is an Enlightened Equipment Recon bivy(6oz) and either a Kifaru Sheep Tarp(9oz) or a Warbonnet Outdoors Mamajamba Tarp(12oz). The recon/mamajamba combo only weighs 18oz and gives me plenty of room for a pack explosion at the end of the day. The sheep tarp is slightly smaller, but made of much tougher material, so I'll bring it with me if I know the wind is going to be bad.

If it's going to be cold, wet, and miserable, that's when I pack my kifaru supertarp and stove. But I think a lightweight tarp and ultralight bivy would be perfect for what your needs seem to be.

Running a MSR Hubba Hubba with the fly is essentially the exact same thing as the kifaru supertarp w peg and pole, and weighs 2oz less. That being said if you are hunting in an area with lots of bugs you want a tent. No way I'm taking a tarp to AK or the flat tops in CO in July.

 

[mtnrunner260]

What is your set up?

That is a REI bivy not sure the name but the $99 version.
I now run one of the lightweight Borah bivies.
One of the SOL emergency blankets on the ground.
The tarp is a DIY i made from lightweight materials from ripstopbytheroll.

 

[sn.outdoors]

Running a MSR Hubba Hubba with the fly is essentially the exact same thing as the kifaru supertarp w peg and pole, and weighs 2oz less. That being said if you are hunting in an area with lots of bugs you want a tent. No way I'm taking a tarp to AK or the flat tops in CO in July.

I only use the supertarp when its cold and I bring the stove. You aren't putting a stove in the hubba hubba. I had a hubba hubba for a few years and it's not the same size and weight as a supertarp when you use trekking poles. I run it with one trekking pole in the front and a stick in the back since I always carry trekking poles anyways. My supertarp setup with stove, trekking pole and stakes weighs right around 4.5lbs. The supertarp is also far more durable than the hubba hubba. So it's not at all an apples to apples comparison.

The EE Recon solves the bug problem too.

I'm not saying a tent is a bad option, I'm just saying that I don't like them for most of my needs. I know a lot of people who just don't like sleeping under tarps, and that's fine. Everyone has their own preferences based on their experiences. Again, I've spent HUNDREDS of nights in the field for work and on my personal time, and have found tarps to be the most effective and lightest way to give me the most space and protection in the widest range of terrain and vegetation. You can setup a tarp just about anywhere. Tents... not so much.

The only time I'd actually prefer a tent would be for extreme weather conditions; above treeline or arctic type weather with no way to build a fire. In those cases, I stick with hilleberg black label tents.

It seems like the OP is also going to have a base camp and I assume he'll basically just spike camp near wherever he's seeing the elk. If that's the case, I recommend an ultralight bivy, a lightweight tarp, and an ultralight sleeping bag. If you're willing to make a natural insulation bed with boughs, duff (dirt and stuff), or just sleep on the ground, you don't need a pad. My setup for summer scouting and early season is a 30 degree EE Enigma quilt (16oz), EE recon (6oz), and sheep tarp (9oz). So for 2lbs I have a bug free shelter and warm sleeping bag that can be setup anywhere. Add a set of trekking poles and a sleeping pad and your at 4lbs for the entire setup.

 

[TrickyTross]

I only use the supertarp when its cold and I bring the stove. You aren't putting a stove in the hubba hubba. I had a hubba hubba for a few years and it's not the same size and weight as a supertarp when you use trekking poles. I run it with one trekking pole in the front and a stick in the back since I always carry trekking poles anyways. My supertarp setup with stove, trekking pole and stakes weighs right around 4.5lbs. The supertarp is also far more durable than the hubba hubba. So it's not at all an apples to apples comparison.

The EE Recon solves the bug problem too.

I'm not saying a tent is a bad option, I'm just saying that I don't like them for most of my needs. I know a lot of people who just don't like sleeping under tarps, and that's fine. Everyone has their own preferences based on their experiences. Again, I've spent HUNDREDS of nights in the field for work and on my personal time, and have found tarps to be the most effective and lightest way to give me the most space and protection in the widest range of terrain and vegetation. You can setup a tarp just about anywhere. Tents... not so much.

The only time I'd actually prefer a tent would be for extreme weather conditions; above treeline or arctic type weather with no way to build a fire. In those cases, I stick with hilleberg black label tents.

It seems like the OP is also going to have a base camp and I assume he'll basically just spike camp near wherever he's seeing the elk. If that's the case, I recommend an ultralight bivy, a lightweight tarp, and an ultralight sleeping bag. If you're willing to make a natural insulation bed with boughs, duff (dirt and stuff), or just sleep on the ground, you don't need a pad. My setup for summer scouting and early season is a 30 degree EE Enigma quilt (16oz), EE recon (6oz), and sheep tarp (9oz). So for 2lbs I have a bug free shelter and warm sleeping bag that can be setup anywhere. Add a set of trekking poles and a sleeping pad and your at 4lbs for the entire setup.

Yes. I will have my kelty at basecamp, but I really just want to spike and follow the elk. Also wanting to be higher and closer so I can compete with the outfitters and horses (not saying its wrong, just not in mu budget)

 

[sn.outdoors]

Yes. I will have my kelty at basecamp, but I really just want to spike and follow the elk. Also wanting to be higher and closer so I can compete with the outfitters and horses (not saying its wrong, just not in mu budget)

What's your budget, and would you consider making your own DIY equipment?

 

[TrickyTross]

What's your budget, and would you consider making your own DIY equipment?

My budget is- Save where I can in order to either buy an additional tag, or buy the wife something nice..... I am a DIY type of guy!

 

[sn.outdoors]

My budget is- Save where I can in order to either buy an additional tag, or buy the wife something nice..... I am a DIY type of guy!

You can make everything yourself for WAY less than buying it assembled. I'll second mtnrunner's recommendation of ripstopbytheroll.com You can buy almost any kind of fabric you'd need for your tarp, bivy, and even a sleeping bag if you wanted to. They also have DIY kits that come with instructions. hammockforums.net is another great resource and has a ton of DIY instructions for almost anything you'd want to build.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

The only time I'd actually prefer a tent would be for extreme weather conditions; above treeline or arctic type weather with no way to build a fire. In those cases, I stick with hilleberg black label tents.

I hear your points, and have tried the bivy with a tarp... I'm just a tent guy. Curious as you appear to have both, when do you use the stove supertarp v. hilleberg? I like my setup for summer through late oct, but I'm looking for something when backpack hunting in nov in MT and CO and for future AK trips. So a shelter for when it's going to be wet, cold, and lots of rain and snow. I borrowed a mountain hardware trango for a black bear hunt in the chugach, was pretty happy with it... but I want to explore my options before dropping $700-800.

 

[TrickyTross]

You can make everything yourself for WAY less than buying it assembled. I'll second mtnrunner's recommendation of ripstopbytheroll.com You can buy almost any kind of fabric you'd need for your tarp, bivy, and even a sleeping bag if you wanted to. They also have DIY kits that come with instructions. hammockforums.net is another great resource and has a ton of DIY instructions for almost anything you'd want to build.

Awesome man! Thanks!!

 

[sn.outdoors]

I hear your points, and have tried the bivy with a tarp... I'm just a tent guy. Curious as you appear to have both, when do you use the stove supertarp v. hilleberg?

I use the kifaru setup any time I have trees, wood to burn and it's going to be wet and cold. Having the stove is a huge gamechanger for morale and comfort when its wet. I'd say for most of your uses, the supertarp and stove will work perfectly.

I'll use the hilleberg if it's going to be really cold (less than 20 degrees for a high) or if I'm going to be above the treeline and expecting some serious winds. Not that I don't think the supertarp would work for those conditions, it's just that I have the luxory of having both systems available to me, and the tent is better at handling that type of weather. I'm not a sheep hunter or a hardcore mountaineering guy, so I don't experience those conditions very often. Realistically, the supertarp meets the majority of my needs and it would be my choice if I could only have 1 shelter.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I use the kifaru setup any time I have trees, wood to burn and it's going to be wet and cold. Having the stove is a huge gamechanger for morale and comfort when its wet. I'd say for most of your uses, the supertarp and stove will work perfectly.

I'll use the hilleberg if it's going to be really cold (less than 20 degrees for a high) or if I'm going to be above the treeline and expecting some serious winds. Not that I don't think the supertarp would work for those conditions, it's just that I have the luxory of having both systems available to me, and the tent is better at handling that type of weather. I'm not a sheep hunter or a hardcore mountaineering guy, so I don't experience those conditions very often. Realistically, the supertarp meets the majority of my needs and it would be my choice if I could only have 1 shelter.

As it doesn't have a bottom, what do you do when camping in snow or wet grass... as far as initial setup to keep your gear dry are you bring tyvek or something as a ground cloth?

 

[Tubb2402]

I looked at this for this years setup myself. I ended up just doing a traditional base camp but liked the idea of a spike camp for a night or two if needed. Personally it came down to weight for me. I didn't want to be carrying a lot of extra weight for the possibility to do a spike camp. I already own the Outdoor Research Bivy and it comes in a 2lbs. Which is pretty light but when I added my current sleeping pad and bag it started to add up in weight. This got me into looking at bivy's, tarps, and ultra light tents, along with pads and sleeping bags. Plus you'll have to figure out food weather to go stoveless or bring a stove. Ultimately, I found that an ultralight tent was the lightest of the 3. Now I know it is not as durable as other items but if trying to reduce weight this was the way to go.

If I was going to upgrade on some of my equipment I would have done the following:

Items	Ounces	Cost
Plexamid Tent with 7 inch Super Sonic Stakes	19.2	$ 586.50
MSR Reactor Stove	14.7	$ 199.95
MSR fuel	4
Big Agnes Insulated AXL Air sleeping pad	11.9	$ 179.95
Zpacks Solo Quilt Standard 20 degree Long	19.5	$ 359.00
Total	4.33 Pounds	$1325.40