Bird dog questions

[406dn]

I have a 10 year old son who wants a dog of his own. I want to get into bird hunting in eastern MT. Is there a breed out there that would make a good companion for my boy (laying around the house, following him around while he plays in the creek and builds forts) but would still point some pheasants every fall? Or are we talking about 2 different dogs here?

IMO, if your boy wants a dog to be his pal,,don't expect him to be able to go down by the creek and have a hunting dog, that does not want to hunt. I'd get him a friendly mutt.

Now if you want a dog for yourself to hunt with,, your options are endless. If you have never had a pointing dog, be aware, they have an independent streak and very strong desire to find game. You could say they are not the ideal beginner's dog.

I have had English Setters for most of my adult life. The type I've had are wonderful bird dogs but may be too much dog for some. A Brittany would make for a good pointing dog for most anyone.

Also, if you are in eastern Montana and want to have a pointing dog,, focus a little on sharptails and huns. They are great birds for a pointing dog.

 

[OntarioHunter]

When my seven year-old grandson comes over, my Lab, who has always been attached to me at the heart, suddenly becomes his dog. Knocks him over as soon as he comes in the door and about licks the skin off the boy's face. She is never three feet away from him. Last night as he was waiting for his mom to pick him up, I was mock hitting him and he was hollering like he was hurt. We were teasing Ellie. She was all over me, getting in the way, groaning and grumbling, gnawing on my arms. It was a riot. Hard to say if she wasn't in on it. I think back to 1964 when we were building the family home in Columbia Falls and the neighbour kid about Parker's age would walk over with his big black Lab "Soot" in tow. They lived right on the raging Flathead River but his folks never had to worry about David. Soot was always at his side. The dog was a hunting fool too. Labs always know where their priorities lie ... and it's not with birds.

 

[Frenchy]

Put me down as another guy that is partial to a good field breed golden. They definitely have the "best friend" quality down pat, and they can be excellent waterfowl and upland dogs. Goldens have great noses, and are easy to train.

But if I were to go the pointer route, it would be a griffon. I've often wondered about brittanies, but do not have any real experience with them. They just seem like really cool dogs.

 

[fallfreak]

I had german short hairs as a kid in KS. They were great dogs to play and hunt with. You would wear out long before they did. As far as upland birds (pheasant and quail) they are great. They will point retrieve and will hunt from dawn to dusk. As far as waterfowl I don't know not much experience there.

 

[Doublecluck]

My Lab cost me $400 five years ago. Zero dollars spent on professional training over fifty-five years of hunting with that breed. Never owned an e-collar, or whoa barrel, or check cord. Basic household obedience is enough. Their inbred hunting instinct and marvelous need-to-please disposition does the rest when you get to the field.

That’s awesome, I’ve had two labs and a golden that cost about the same and I trained about the same. They were/are great family dogs and surely their abilities were more a testament of their genetics/breed rather than my moderate knowledge and limited time in training them. They performed as would be expected in the field and I had a lot of fun hunting with them. But let’s be real, there is a wide range of abilities and potential any field dog can reach based nearly all on training. Bomb dogs don’t just become bomb dogs, cadaver dogs don’t just become cadaver dogs, police dogs, same for field breeds. What’s expected totally depends on the expectations of the owner, x dog living up to those expectations depends almost solely on training and less on genetics/breed. Anyone can go get a lab from the local puppy mill, throw a few bumpers, let it interact with the kids (who will likely teach it all sorts of undesirable field habits) , go out and rustle some bushes in the field and pick up a few birds. If that’s the expectation than great. For me 20 years of hunting waterfowl 5 months of the year with many a dogs has lead me to where I am today in my expectations.

1. Basic commands-
here,sit,stay,drop,heel,leave it, etc.

2. Steady dog- I want a dog that is rock steady on stay, rather it be geese landing in the decoys 20 yards away, someone calling the shot and 5 guys shooting, other dogs in the blind going for retrieves, people throwing decoys, whatever, I didn’t want my dog to move till I told Him to move. I’ve seen dogs nearly get killed by falling geese when they break and are half way thru the decoys while people are still shooting and birds are still falling. I’ve seen people nearly get killed by dogs jumping over layabout blinds and running thru a-frame blinds knocking over every gun and stepping on triggers along the way. Don’t want any of that either.

3. The ability to mark as well as hand signals to direct the dog to fallen birds.

4. As far as field work I just wanted my dog to have the ability to work the field with me staying in range and come back in range on command, he’s not a pointer and I’m not a huge upland hunter, most of our upland hunts occur because we happen to be duck hunting in a area that has upland and get bored in the mid day lull. Never had a golden that couldn’t sniff out and out smart a couple roosters.

5. I want to be able to call my dog off a retrieve, last spring I tied a rope to my buddies foot so he could belly crawl across a frozen North Dakota pond to save his lab after it went thru the ice and nearly died chasing a wounded snow goose. Dog has so much drive and marking ability (1/2 mile) it completely ignores the owner once that desire to retrieve (and please her owner is triggered).

5. My golden was showing slight aggression (growling) toward my smaller kids when he was eating or had a toy and they came around trying to take it. Uncharacteristic for the breed and not a habit that I would have any tolerance for.

All of that said, I know I didn’t have the time or knowledge to fulfill my expectations alone so I paid someone to do it. Super happy I did. I’m sure other types of hunters have totally different expectations and budgets. I’m sure a guy could read a couple books and take the time to train those expectations. And that’s great, I own a business and have a gaggle of kids so it worked for me for what I wanted.

As far as a shock collar , my trainer in Missoula don’t use them. Dog was trained nearly entirely without one. He called me one day and is telling me all these great things about the progress, how well he marks, his nose, he don’t give up looking for a mark, but once he gets the mark sometimes he wants to run off with it. Said he tried everything but was having a hell of a time breaking it. Well guess where he learned that from? My small kids throwing bumpers and then chasing after him. So he was asking my permission to use a collar to break him of that habit. I agreed and he had broke the habit in only a few retrieves simply by using the vibrate function. Currently I run the collar about half the time we are hunting and so far simply hitting vibrate and repeating the desired command is enough to break his attention and set him back on course. That said a collar can save a dogs life, frozen ponds/rivers, ice shelf’s, coyotes, bears, porcupine. There are times, especially in the development stages when they get sidetracked and you just need the ability to demand their attention back. Still plenty of folks training dogs without collars, just because you send your dog to get trained don’t mean it’s being tortured.

 

[crouchgc]

I have a 10 year old son who wants a dog of his own. I want to get into bird hunting in eastern MT. Is there a breed out there that would make a good companion for my boy (laying around the house, following him around while he plays in the creek and builds forts) but would still point some pheasants every fall? Or are we talking about 2 different dogs here?

Brittany makes a a great hunting dog and companion. Also easy to train.

 

[Jim3649]

Labs are great hunting dogs. Self-trained my dog and he is an absolute machine for pheasants and waterfowl.

 

[TheJason]

Personally I’d recommend trying to spend some time around some different breeds. Also, recognize the inherent bias in many recommendations.

 

[BirdManMike]

I am a pointer guy that wants a dog that will range to the end of the earth and hold a point until the end of time. Your requirements of, in order, 1) follow your son around, and b. hunt pheasants, tell me you want a lab.

 

[2rocky]

I'm going to focus on your son. What does he think about having a dog? Why not get his buy in on breeds, and guide it along the context this discussion has created. Book some hunts with a bird guide, or go with a bird dog owning friend and see if the dog work excites him. Ask him what he thinks about the guide's dogs. You are going to focus on your son's experience on the hunt. Do an upland and a waterfowl hunt. talk about the differences in the hunts and dog work.

I remember it seemed like we walked FOR-EEEEEVER when I went on my first wild pheasant hunt with my dad and uncle. It kinda turned me off at first. Until I killed a bird...

I grew up like you are envisioning your son's dog experience. They were dad's dogs , but when I had my BB gun they hung out with me...Those pointers treed a lot of coons and caught possums around the ranch There was no "Dedicated Bird dog" to them at all.

I also got a lot of inspiration from the fiction books I read...Jim Kjelgaard for one. Your son is the perfect age for those.

 

[Non-resident Hunter]

awesome thread. been thinking of my next pup. these are great selections. was leaning towards a weimaraner but i am concerned of the cold on some hunts.

 

[Irrelevant]

I think you're over thinking the breed component. There's more variation within a breed than there are between breeds. All breeds contain shitty individuals. Spend more time looking at the individual kennel. Talk to several people. And be really honest about what you want and not what the breeder wants you to want.

 

[406dn]

I also got a lot of inspiration from the fiction books I read...Jim Kjelgaard for one. Your son is the perfect age for those.

Jim Kjelgaard inspired more children than he could ever realize. Our school library had most of his books. I read every one of them, as fast as I could check them out.

 

[AlaskaHunter]

I started with a Visla in the 1980s, a very nice dog.
Since then I've always had a couple black labs.
So much fun teaching retrievers marks and blind retrieves all summer long.
Sometimes it takes time to get that puppy. You find a reputable breeder, put down a deposit for a male or a female,
and the litter has only one or two males or females and your number 4 on the list.
So then go thru the process again of finding a litter, putting down a deposit, getting on the list, and hoping.

 

[Southern Elk]

Thanks everyone. You’ve given us a lot to think about. Do any of you specific recommendations for kennels within a few hours of SW MT? I looked at the website on the first page for pointing labs. Any idea how much those pups cost?

 

[2ski]

There used to be a woman in Martinsdale MT that wold English labs.

As said, beware bias from people when you ask opinions on dogs. Just like you can't criticize someone's kid, everyone thinks their dog is the best. You can see by some of the responses by some where they're convinced they know what you need because their dog is so amazing. Not to say their dog isn't, but its the right dog for them. Maybe not you.

I don't want a lab. But to me I think that's what you would want. For your 10 year old boy to walk around with a lot of the other breeds and not have it run off hunting, I think you're asking alot. If it was you, that's different.

 

[AlaskaHunter]

One common error I see newbies make is repeating commands.
Commands soon become "background noise" as demonstrated in the first half of this video:

 

[TheJason]

One common error I see newbies make is repeating commands.

I see it with folks who've owned dogs for a long time as well. It's like nails on a chalkboard....

 

[WestKyHunt]

Something else to think about is shedding. Many seem to think it is a component they will not care about.... and then the dog blows its winter coat.
It can be dealt with but definitely has moments of annoyance

 

[cedahm]

Brittany’s make good pets and pointers. They are a lot higher energy than a lab, so you’d need to make sure you’re up for getting them the level of activity they need.

Another Brit vote. We have had 3 Brits since both kids were small. Relatively small (compared to GSPs, Pointers, Labs at least - my 3 have maxed out at 55, 30 and 33 pounds respectively - the 55lb male was kind of an anomaly), unbelievably affectionate, bright, agile, extremely high energy. If you can't walk a Brit a mile (ideally more) a day, you're going to have behavior problems. I have also never met a Brit that wasn't mostly a house dog.

We hunted waterfowl over a friends Brit when I was young, but that is an exception to the rule. Mine like water, but they A: Can't sit still for very long and B: As @OntarioHunter notes, retrieving is a secondary skill (at best) for most of the pointing breeds..