Bighorns, Bears, and Bad Blood

[hossblur]

At one time my cousins were the largest sheep ranchers in the intermountain west.

I eat sheep. Mainly mutton.

So im pretty pro public grazing. It's a win for consumers. And is a win for environment(hay sucks a lot of water, a lot of diesel)

BUT. I'm gonna assume he's part of an association. Be it woolgrowers or otherwise.

I raised this with my friend who has cattle grazing permit.

"Why do you play by the rules, obey regs, yet look the other way when another member doesn't?"

Seemed to me when they go to market, you are at a disadvantage in that POS rancher had less overall cost because he didn't have to feed privately as long.

Never have got much an answer yet.

I know in my business, contractors will file complaints with state on unlicensed, illegally running contractors.

Seems like pressure on associations to kick out bad members is an avenue. Those associations have economic sway.

In short, if you can't sell them, they bankrupt you.

 

[BigHornRam]

On a serious note, which is rare for me.

Can WY deny the grazing permits? Because, from a 30,000 foot view from someone that has no clue about ranching or grazing rights, it seems pretty obvious about what he's doing. Are there no laws that can prevent him from grazing on public land if his sheep are diseased and going to potentially transfer disease to Big Horns?

The problem is the rancher Robbins is running domestics on his private deeded property. The adjacent property that is federal BLM land he would like to get a permit to graze on would only allow cattle. No problem there (other than the tremendous losses from grizzly depridation), but doesn't stop him from grazing domestics on his private land. Wyoming WSF would like the BLM grazing permit to be conditional to only cattle grazing on both the public and private (likely un-fenced) mosaic of land near where the wild sheep live. Reasonable request, but the less than reasonable Robbins wants to use the domestics as leverage to get what he wants ( blm grazing permit).

Robbins has pretty much run out of bridges to burn down, and at this point the only outcome left is to let the local grizzly population fatten up on his domestic sheep and cattle.

Then the APR can step up and by him out, and switch the herd over to bison.

 

[BigHornRam]

At one time my cousins were the largest sheep ranchers in the intermountain west.

I eat sheep. Mainly mutton.

So im pretty pro public grazing. It's a win for consumers. And is a win for environment(hay sucks a lot of water, a lot of diesel)

BUT. I'm gonna assume he's part of an association. Be it woolgrowers or otherwise.

I raised this with my friend who has cattle grazing permit.

"Why do you play by the rules, obey regs, yet look the other way when another member doesn't?"

Seemed to me when they go to market, you are at a disadvantage in that POS rancher had less overall cost because he didn't have to feed privately as long.

Never have got much an answer yet.

I know in my business, contractors will file complaints with state on unlicensed, illegally running contractors.

Seems like pressure on associations to kick out bad members is an avenue. Those associations have economic sway.

In short, if you can't sell them, they bankrupt you.

The rancher in question is a lone wolf who only does things his way. Also appears like the ranching aspect of his operation is a "hobby" and normal economic pressures don't have much impact on him.

 

[hossblur]

The rancher in question is a lone wolf who only does things his way. Also appears like the ranching aspect of his operation is a "hobby" and normal economic pressures don't have much impact on him.

Unfortunately not uncommon though. There are a few in every state

 

[BigHornRam]

Its funny how a domestic dog is seen running wildlife on public land...they get shot by the public, game and fish, etc.

A domestic sheep that threatens an entire herd of wild, native bighorn sheep and they're a "sacred cow" that the public cant dump on sight.

Something wrong with that picture...

Wild horses are the public land "sacred cow" Buzz. Free ranging, non-permited, public land wandering domestic sheep are called camp meat. But if you want to shoot one on private property, you are going to have to get the land owners permission, or be willing to go to jail to do it. I don't think you are the type to fair well in jail Buzz, so I would advise against going that route.

 

[88man]

What started the issue back in the 90's that made Robbins want to press the nuke button???????? A few on this forum have biased sides as they work for the government. Every now and then some government agency or rogue individual government employee imposes restrictions or interprets a regulation differently and in some cases it can bankrupt businesses or individuals.

 

[BigHornRam]

What started the issue back in the 90's that made Robbins want to press the nuke button???????? A few on this forum have biased sides as they work for the government. Every now and then some government agency or rogue individual government employee imposes restrictions or interprets a regulation differently and in some cases it can bankrupt businesses or individuals.

The road access easement looks like where the bad blood started. Reasonable people should have been able to come to some sort of an agreement. The BLM needed the easement to access their landlocked parcels and the rancher needed an easement to access his landlocked parcels. Likely two hard heads decided to butt heads instead of working it out.

 

[BigHornRam]

Unfortunately not uncommon though. There are a few in every state

We have a hard head in Montana right now, the guy Randy alluded to in an earlier post.

Is a Montana landowner’s push to graze domestic animals dangerous to bighorn sheep?

Hunters gather to discuss impacts to Missouri Breaks herd

www.gohunt.com

 

[daltrix99]

Wild horses are the public land "sacred cow" Buzz. Free ranging, non-permited, public land wandering domestic sheep are called camp meat. But if you want to shoot one on private property, you are going to have to get the land owners permission, or be willing to go to jail to do it. I don't think you are the type to fair well in jail Buzz, so I would advise against going that route.

Who feels this way about feral horses? Every hunter I know wants them gone.

 

[BigHornRam]

Who feels this way about feral horses? Every hunter I know wants them gone.

Most hunters I know want wild horse numbers seriously reduce. I don't know any that wants them all gone. They are "sacred cows" because there are laws on the books from way back that makes "dumping" one on sight illegal. Sure it happens, but that doesn't improve our reputation when does.

 

[88man]

The Owl Creek Ranch is for sale and boarders Robbins. Maybe a conservation group could buy it

 

[BigHornRam]

Nice looking place with a steep price tag.

Owl Creek Ranch - Mirr Ranch Group

Owl Creek Ranch is a remote, pristine wilderness property located at the foot of the 12,500 Washakie Needles allowing direct access to the Wind River

www.mirrranchgroup.com

 

[88man]

Nice looking place with a steep price tag.

Owl Creek Ranch - Mirr Ranch Group

Owl Creek Ranch is a remote, pristine wilderness property located at the foot of the 12,500 Washakie Needles allowing direct access to the Wind River

www.mirrranchgroup.com

Wow what a place

 

[Dave N]

I'll take two!

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Arbitration panel ruled on HD ranch loses due to grizzly kills.

Panel abandons griz depredation comp model, awards ranch $339K

The verdict is the latest development in a 25-year clash between public wildlife values and private property rights in the Owl Creek area.

trib.com

Wonder what multiplier is required for it to make more financial sense to have your stock killed by grizzlies vs. slaughter house?

 

[TheTone]

Arbitration panel ruled on HD ranch loses due to grizzly kills.

Panel abandons griz depredation comp model, awards ranch $339K

The verdict is the latest development in a 25-year clash between public wildlife values and private property rights in the Owl Creek area.

trib.com

Wonder what multiplier is required for it to make more financial sense to have your stock killed by grizzlies vs. slaughter house?

Ugh!!! Why bother even trying to keep them safe when it’s worth so much to just let something kill them or never find them.

 

[Dave N]

How many "disappeared" into a freezer?

 

[Irrelevant]

Arbitration panel ruled on HD ranch loses due to grizzly kills.

Panel abandons griz depredation comp model, awards ranch $339K

The verdict is the latest development in a 25-year clash between public wildlife values and private property rights in the Owl Creek area.

trib.com

Wonder what multiplier is required for it to make more financial sense to have your stock killed by grizzlies vs. slaughter house?

Looks like he tried the same thing this year, but the WDFG appealed the Arbitration ruling and won. At least for now. Not sure I see the SCOTUS taking the case.

Judge sides with Game and Fish, limits grizzly-killed stock award - WyoFile

Decision will trim the award by an arbitration panel to Thermopolis area rancher Josh Longwell by $205,483.

www.wyofile.com