Big changes being floated around for CO elk hunters

[Oak]

No pissing match, just exchanging information.

Ok, CO has an overpopulation of elk, and according to Schmalts and Iron Buck, most non-residents don't want to kill cows...especially for $250. The only way they can increase the number of 300-inch bulls is to stop killing them as raghorns. The only way to do that is to limit bull licenses. About 50% of the DOW's total budget comes from selling bull elk licenses, so they'll have to find another way to make that money (for the sake of this argument, reducing the budget is not an alternative). So how do we get the cows killed, reduce the numbers of bulls killed and maintain the same incoming revenue? I'm asking because I don't know. I wasn't trying to get in a pissing match, I'm just saying that everyone is good at stating the problems, but nobody seems to have a feasable solution.

Oak

 

[Oak]

I think that's a good idea, Iron Buck...I think I mentioned it somewhere above. This year residents(and non-residents) were allowed to kill two elk: either one cow and one bull or two cows. The thing is, most folks don't WANT more than two elk. Last year they let us kill three, and I only know a handful of folks that actually bought three licenses.

Oak

 

[schmalts]

Your not going to like my answer but... Raise the resident Bull tag prices. You guys dont spend squat, and i really doubt any resident will stop hunting even if the state bumped the tag prices 20%
The state already learned a lesson that year they raised nonres cow tags. They need to look elsewhere. I know this may hit a bad note, but its just a suggestion. If CO bit the bullet for a couple years i believe they could get rid of a bunch of cows, limit the bull tags a little better and put a 5 pt rule on them, and maybe attract more hunters in the end. I would bet that states like NM AZ, and UT make a ton of money just off of application fees because some of the quality units they have to offer.
Wisconsin learned that all the 12$ bonus doe tags were not selling due to lack of interest. The DNR lost money by trying to get guys to buy the tags because no one wanted to buy a bunch , and the DNR ended up paying out money for crop damage to farmers instead. Just open up the damn cow tags to everyone for a REASONABLE, wait, let me rephrase that, ATTRACTIVE price. Then you may see guys buying the bull tag to hunt and also buy a cow tag just to fill the freezer and not come home empty handed. Its simple, lose the greed tactics and share the expense.
Just my 2$. I know it would draw opposition with residents but i am not trying to win a popularity contest, just come up with what i think would work.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-02-2004 16:24: Message edited by: schmalts ]</font>

 

[roland from calif.]

Oak,
didn't mean to come off like an ahole. I've lived in Calif. all my life and watched our deer herds go in to complete decline. Not sure many people know this but Ca. has 3 of the top 10 BC mule deer. So that said I can identify with the problem Colorado is currently having. Some of the ideas I've seen on this thread sound like good ideas. Unfortunately CDOW is only interested in making money of NR's and not managing their elk herd.

 

[Iron Buck]

CO OAK:

I did not catch all of this debate. Sorry if I skipped over your earlier suggestions along the lines of multiple tags.

I see your point with cow elk. A lot more meat than on a deer. Freezer space would be at a premium LOL. It is a tough problem.

Schmalts:

You guys have doe tags left over? That NEVER happens here in PA but ours only cost $6.00. They sell them all. To the dissatisfation of some who feel killing the does are a mistake.

I also like antler restrictions. A 5 point restriction would be fin by me. But many others hate them. No matter what CO does or does not do, people will complain. Wait to see what happens if they do find a way to wipe out some of the excess cows. Then people will complain that they see no elk! Of course the elk will still be there. But he easy access areas are the first places they will avoid...even more so than now.

It will be a tough choice to make for the Colorado DNR. I will just sit back and watch. Waiting to see when, how or if my elk hunting plans need to change.

 

[pa mt man]

Oak, somebody in colorado is being paid to manage the elk herds and they know a lot more about it than I do.But I'll put in my two cents.
I don't think cheaper nr cow lic's are the answer, but I think it would help. Hunters from nearby states would probably take advantage of them. We have a lot of fun elk hunting, but I know I couldn't get our group to go on a cow hunt. We had either sex lic's in 2002 and some of the guys refused to take a cow even on the last day of the hunt.

 

[Washington Hunter]

pa mt man, your buddies turned down cow elk on the last day? Don't they like elk meat?

I would never turn down an opportunity for a freezer full of elk meat.

This has been an interesting discussion. I think I could get a group of guys to go down to Colorado on a cow elk hunt, especially if the season was at a time that didn't interfere with deer and elk seasons in this state, so it would have to be before mid-October, and after mid-November. Somebody mentioned making party hunting legal in an earlier post. In my opinion that would be a good idea. That might be what it would take to get my group of guys to drive all the way to Colorado. That way everybody could hunt and continue hunting as long as there were tags left. The $250 tag is a good deal IMO, and if the season could be in either September or late November, AND we could party hunt, we'd be there!

 

[1_pointer]

Schmaltz, I just may have to take you up on that. Do you know any families that would want the meat?? I'm not sure my wife and I could eat 10 deer!

The DOW needs money and most western states get the bulk of that from non-residents. I'm thinking that a increase in resident bull tags, even with a drop in # would raise just as much money. Make it easy as hell for the residents to get the cow tags. I see it as supply and demand. You limit the number of bull tags the price can go up. I'm just wondering if the powers that be are more interested in quantity over quality?

 

[Oak]

Schmalts, you won't bother me with that solution. Check out my topic in the Big Game section on the bill in our legislature right now that is proposing to DOUBLE most of our resident fees. I said that I supported the move. I think it's about time.

PA MM, I just thought that since I have the opportunity to go to one of these upcoming meetings, which most of you don't have, I would pump some of the non-residents to get an idea of what you're thinking. That way I can tell those guys that are paid to make the decisions.

Good conversation, guys. WH, sounds like your seasons run the same time as ours (mid-Oct to mid-Nov.).

Oak

 

[schmalts]

1point ,I give away more than half of the deer i shoot to families that want them. I am guilty this year of only shooting one doe. I was trying to arrow one of the better bucks i had seen and I was just too lazy, bored, and getting sick of deer hunting Midwest style to take doe so i was taking pictures instead. I had 3 doe tags that went in the garbage. Thankfully by buddy next to me shot a bunch to thin the herd a bit, and just in time as it looks like its gonna be a bad winter for them.
I didnt even gun hunt on my land this year. I skipped the rifle season and went near my home with the muzz for a couple days. Passed up a small 4pt and never saw anything better.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-02-2004 19:53: Message edited by: schmalts ]</font>

 

[1_pointer]

Schaltz- At least you had fun!

I'm always interested in sticking an arrow in something! Depending on my draws this year...

 

[OAKSTER]

No one should worry about trying to hunt elk in Wyoming anymore. Between the griz and wolves, there aren't any more elk. Just a few cows on a private ranch, and they have brucellosis.


As far as Colorado goes, I bet if it's left up to the DOW, they will screw it up no matter what plan they come up with.

[ 02-07-2004, 02:54: Message edited by: OAKSTER ]

 

[Oak]

Oakster, there were a couple of guys with your opinion at the meeting I went to on Wednesday. They were really helpful in the good discussion going on.

Oak

 

[Iron Buck]

Colorado Oak,

How did that meeting go? Amything substantial to report?

 

[Oak]

It wasn't too bad, but the biologists there were very non-committal. They just listened to the ideas being floated around by the hunters, explained why some of them wouldn't work, and encouraged the hunters to write down and submit the good ideas. Some folks had good ideas, some had pretty off the wall ideas (like going back to totally unlimited buck deer tags ), but the disturbing thing to me was that most ideas had to do with "How can the DOW make it better for ME!?" There seems to be very few hunters out there who first think, "How can the DOW make it better for the game herds?"

Oak

 

[KC]

I went to the meeting in Colorado Springs Wednesday night. Looks like it will be another monh before they consier actual season dates. Right now they are trying to decide on policy guidelines which will be applied to the process of setting season dates.

KC

 

[DaleT]

I have a suggestion that works real well on ranches but would be a tough to implement on a state wide basis.

Alot of people don't want to kill their does down here, so some of the savy ranchers make it a rule that you have to kill a doe before you can kill a buck.

What winds up happening is people aren't near as blood thirsty after killing a doe and they generally are more patient on waiting for a bigger buck.

I think that would be real effective for CO because people would be much more likely to pay full price for a tag for two animals, and most wouldn't be able to fill both tags. Due to either time or energy. Killing, cleaning, and packing a cow takes a lot out of you.

This creates the perception that I have to get a cow on the ground ASAP, so I can maximize my chances for a bull.

 

[sdgunslinger]

How about issueing an over the counter license that would entitle the hunter to BOTH a cow and a bull ?

I think most hunters would then go ahead and take a cow , rather than chamce going home empty handed . But then they would still have the opportunity to take a bull if one showed up . You could make this tag limtied to 5 point or better bulls , to give the raghorns a chance to grow up .

 

[Ithaca 37]

Hey sd, We need you back in SI to represent the fruitcake side of the issues. Just about all the others who were on your side have smartened up and seen the light!

Even michael has figured out how much the FS is overgrazed, now that it's happened in HIS hunting spot! He was one of your strongest allies!