BHA can now celebrate. Hypocrites

[hossblur]

They aren’t. I believe the criticism is that they should be opposing it.

No. The criticism is that if they are opposed to development of public ground, then that means ALL development.

 

[hossblur]

Is this the position you're referring too? https://www.backcountryhunters.org/...ent_act#/takeaction/invalid/letterGroupId/112

Yes.

BHA, specifically Land will point to the 10% part.

Which, means that for 10%, BHA will shut up, and walk away.

At best, BHA should have remained neutral.

Instead, they sold out to their political allies.

There is no defense for supporting development, as long as it's for green New Deal.

Acres lost, are acres lost

 

[OriginalOscar]

How, exactly?

A homeowner might plant grass or a tree.

Sarcasm. Housing development would be better than these sterile wastelands.

BHA are hypocrites and many on this forum are Green Decoys because they don't question or engage in policy positions for organizations they support.

Read the thread of Senator Lee bill to make BLM land available for housing and the hysteria of "not one acre" of public land.

 

[jryoung]

Sarcasm. Housing development would be better than these sterile wastelands.

BHA are hypocrites and many on this forum are Green Decoys because they don't question or engage in policy positions for organizations they support.

Read the thread of Senator Lee bill to make BLM land available for housing and the hysteria of "not one acre" of public land.

How much are houses fetching next to a massive commercial hog farm?

 

[hossblur]

How much are houses fetching next to a massive commercial hog farm?

Lot of public land not ideal for housing development, so under your theory it should be destroyed?

 

[tjones]

Hey Hoss can you post a statement from BHA or Land on this?

BHA, specifically Land will point to the 10% part.

 

[Knight.54]

Lots to contemplate here.
I’m all for active discussion and understand both sides.
I thought I was for solar until I started seeing it here in NE North Carolina…. Don’t understand why it can’t be incorporated with agriculture… in a more aesthetically appealing way….. line the sides of the highways with them. Put them in the empty parts of the clover leafs….A critter literally loses the ability to tread on the dirt the way it’s done here. why the huge barbed wire fence around the fields..
I guess it’s the maximise the acreage idea, like industrial farming.

 

[hossblur]

Hey Hoss can you post a statement from BHA or Land on this?

BHA took enough heat from myself, and others, they actually posted a question and answer on their website. I'll assume it's still there?

Sorry for screen shot, but outlook and my android ain't liking each other recently.

"A funding source to mitigate.....". Or in other words, it's ok to sacrifice some land if a check gets scratched.

 

[hossblur]

My "discussion" with Land I believe was through FB, or IG.

Wisely I dumped both of those right after Covid hit, so I don't have records of it.

But my challenge to him was if Chevron, or BP wants to drill, will you(BHA) support it for a 10% check?

 

[tjones]

So the answer is no.

Got it, carry on

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Hoss and I converge on this issue.

Here's where I'm coming from, full disclosure I work for an OG company, we drill wells.

I support BHA, generally but they have this one wrong.

If a company I was working for was drilling migration corridors in WY I would hope BuzzH would be keeping us honest. I want Buzz lobbying the WOGCC for rules that protect species, and mitigate impacts.

If there is a solar project or wind I want him to do the exact same thing, period. Don't give anyone a pass, look at them as industrial projects on public lands that enrich a private group.

Don't let any company tell you there won't be impacts, or that they won't try to maximize profits.

They will, expect it, watch for it.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SEC. 9. RENEWABLE ENERGY GOAL.
The Secretary and the Secretary of Agriculture shall seek to issue permits that, in total, authorize production of not less than 25 gigawatts of electricity from wind, solar, and geothermal energy projects by not later than 2025, through management of public lands and administration of Federal laws.

-No we should permit projects, as they meet the same rigorous standards that we have for other projects. If someone wants a solar array they submit an application, same standards for roads, impacts, etc.

I wouldn't support a bill that says "shall seek to issue permits for oil wells that, in total will produce 1,000,000 barrels of oil a day" in the next 5 years, you shouldn't either.

The words "may" versus "shall" have massive implications.

I work in the utility scale renewables industry, primarily solar, and agree 100%.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Lots to contemplate here.
I’m all for active discussion and understand both sides.
I thought I was for solar until I started seeing it here in NE North Carolina…. Don’t understand why it can’t be incorporated with agriculture… in a more aesthetically appealing way….. line the sides of the highways with them. Put them in the empty parts of the clover leafs….A critter literally loses the ability to tread on the dirt the way it’s done here. why the huge barbed wire fence around the fields..
I guess it’s the maximise the acreage idea, like industrial farming.

Economies of scale. Utility companies go out to bid for new generation from developers, developers tell them how much power they can sell at what rate. The projects that offer the best rates get the power purchase agreements with utilities. The more condensed in perfect square blocks the arrays are, the cheaper they are to build.

At a utility scale they are power plants and fall under NERC requirements for physical and cyber security hence the barbed wire fences.

 

[RobertD]

Economies of scale. Utility companies go out to bid for new generation from developers, developers tell them how much power they can sell at what rate. The projects that offer the best rates get the power purchase agreements with utilities. The more condensed in perfect square blocks the arrays are, the cheaper they are to build.

At a utility scale they are power plants and fall under NERC requirements for physical and cyber security hence the barbed wire fences.

I'll add to your response to him that they also require infrastructure beyond just panels; they have to be located in proximity to power lines that move all that juice to wherever it needs to go. They also often have to have buffer zones between panels and neighboring properties/roads so parcels below a certain acreage aren't feasible.

 

[RobertD]

Me and my brother, who I see already commented once in this thread, could tell you guys a real cry in your beer story about some land that once put a couple of whitetail bucks in the B&C book but now just sits there soaking up the sun, so to speak. That's the story of opposing a private solar project that's now one of the largest contiguous solar fields east of the Mississippi.

I'm not really a fan of solar energy for several reasons after and before that go round. I will say that my biggest concern w/ public land development would be clean up issues. People are under the impression that solar farms are perpetual. My understanding is that technological innovation means solar panels render themselves obsolete over time with regularity. Biggest concern IMO is obsolescence that leads to either dead solar fields on public land or cleanup w/ taxpayer dollars.

 

[BigHornRam]

Also need to be built in areas with an abundance of sun to pencil out.

https://www.nrel.gov/gis/assets/images/nsrdb-v3-ghi-2018-01.jpg

 

[BigHornRam]

Me and my brother, who I see already commented once in this thread, could tell you guys a real cry in your beer story about some land that once put a couple of whitetail bucks in the B&C book but now just sits there soaking up the sun, so to speak. That's the story of when my family and some other local families fought against a private solar project that's now one of the largest contiguous solar fields east of the Mississippi.

I'm not really a fan of solar energy for several reasons after and before that go round. I will say that my biggest concern w/ public land development would be clean up issues. People are under the impression that solar farms are perpetual. My understanding is that technological innovation means solar panels render themselves obsolete over time with regularity. Biggest concern IMO is obsolescence that leads to either dead solar fields on public land or cleanup w/ taxpayer dollars.

Panels last about 25 years right now. I'm sure technology will make these solar farms obsolete in 25 years.

 

[brocksw]

I say we start a new group called PFF, Pig Farm Foundation. Let's advocate against this solar project on behalf of the thousands and thousands of pigs that were there first! They deserve to be free from energy development and the shackles of industry. This public land is all they have to look at from the confines of the industrial farming complex from which they live.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Me and my brother, who I see already commented once in this thread, could tell you guys a real cry in your beer story about some land that once put a couple of whitetail bucks in the B&C book but now just sits there soaking up the sun, so to speak. That's the story of when my family and some other local families fought against a private solar project that's now one of the largest contiguous solar fields east of the Mississippi.

I'm not really a fan of solar energy for several reasons after and before that go round. I will say that my biggest concern w/ public land development would be clean up issues. People are under the impression that solar farms are perpetual. My understanding is that technological innovation means solar panels render themselves obsolete over time with regularity. Biggest concern IMO is obsolescence that leads to either dead solar fields on public land or cleanup w/ taxpayer dollars.

I see two possible paths.

1. The site is seen as disturbed, and therefore is just perpetually used for industrial development. 25 years from now the Land Tawney of some conservation group is saying, listen it’s been destroyed let’s transfer it to private for xyz.

2. In 25 years the array isn’t economic. At year 15 about 30% of the panels didn’t work, but identifying and fixing them wasn’t worth it economies of scale and all that so the field ends up being owned by some fly by night group or transferred to the public or something. A OG well is a 12 inch hole on a couple acre dirt lot, costs ~30-90k to remediate. 1/2 goes to putting mud and concrete down the hole to cap the producing formations the other goes to replanting etc. Depending on the well you pull the pipe and tubing to sell for scrap. If that’s the cost and process for a 12 inch hole, what’s the process for 1000 acres of panels.

A well might cost $5-10MM to drill (hz well) and 90k to remediate, I have to imagine that remediating a solar field is almost the same as building one? Are they really being bonded for that?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I say we start a new group called PFF, Pig Farm Foundation. Let's advocate against this solar project on behalf of the thousands and thousands of pigs that were there first! They deserve to be free from energy development and the shackles of industry. This public land is all they have to look at from the confines of the industrial farming complex from which they live.
View attachment 220142

Why don’t they buy the pig farm?

 

[JLS]

Why don’t they buy the pig farm?

Pigs need affordable housing too.