Berger Bullets

[gregt9146]

Does anybody have any load information for a 28 Nosler that they would be willing to share? I have most of the powders that they say work well in the caliber in Retumbo, H1000 and RL33,

 

[asdew1880]

This swayed me away from Berger, now I use Barnes and nosler exclusively. Interesting anectodal perspective.

 

[Doublecluck]

Does anybody have any load information for a 28 Nosler that they would be willing to share? I have most of the powders that they say work well in the caliber in Retumbo, H1000 and RL33,

I’ve run 78.8 of h1000 and 80.2 of retumbo, I think in general retumbo is a little better for the 180’s

Currently I’m running 195’s w 83 of rl 33 avg 3050 w a sd of 6

Wouldn’t tell you my coal because it’s long..

Nosler brass and 215m’s

 

[ImBillT]

This swayed me away from Berger, now I use Barnes and nosler exclusively. Interesting anectodal perspective.

That guy shouldn’t sway anyone...in any of his videos.

 

[88man]

I am a big fan of berger bullets and they are my go to bullet for target shooting and hunting hands down. The best groups I have ever shot at distance have been with berger bullets. However, if I went on a grizzly hunt I most likely would use a nosler partition or accubond.

 

[Tradewind]

That guy shouldn’t sway anyone...in any of his videos.

I listened until he compared a berger bullet to his 53 yr old bullet. 53 yr old optics, etc. Unless he recovered the elk to
know exactly what happened, it is conjecture. waste of time unless you like hearing hunitng stories

 

[asdew1880]

That guy shouldn’t sway anyone...in any of his videos.

Agreed, except for about 5 minutes of this video. 90% of the time its "back in my day" or "wolves ate a the elk" etc....

 

[mtmuley]

It's funny. Berger is the only manufacturer that has had multiple "hunting" shows showcase one particular bullet. Media blast to the masses. mtmuley

 

[Wind Gypsy]

It's funny. Berger is the only manufacturer that has had multiple "hunting" shows showcase one particular bullet. Media blast to the masses. mtmuley

What are you referring to? No hunting shows have ever showcased nosler, barnes, or Hornady bullets?

 

[ImBillT]

What are you referring to? No hunting shows have ever showcased nosler, barnes, or Hornady bullets?

I only watch two. One started with Federal and moved to Nosler. The other shoots arrows.

 

[88man]

It's funny. Berger is the only manufacturer that has had multiple "hunting" shows showcase one particular bullet. Media blast to the masses. mtmuley

I think hornady by far does the most advertising/marketing and shows etc then nosler. I'm not being argumentative and it doesn't matter anyway

 

[gregt9146]

I’ve run 78.8 of h1000 and 80.2 of retumbo, I think in general retumbo is a little better for the 180’s

Currently I’m running 195’s w 83 of rl 33 avg 3050 w a sd of 6

Wouldn’t tell you my coal because it’s long..

Nosler brass and 215m’s

So now my next question is the ballistic coefficient, why is there 2 different ones? and how do you know which one your loading?

 

[D_Walt]

I shot an elk this year with a 215 Berger out of a 30 Nosler through both lungs. He died the same as the elk I’ve thot through the lungs with TTSX’s. Then I shot a nice buck with Berger through both lungs, he died the same as all the other deer I’ve shot through the lungs with corelocks, ballistic tips, power points, grand slams, game kings, accubonds, ttsx’s, SST’s and a few others. Poke them in the lungs and they’ll die. If you’re worried about having to take a hard angled shot or hitting the shoulder then shoot a TTSX, GMX or any of the other mono’s. Just my .02

 

[Don Fischer]

Shoot the lungs, not the meat. The nice thing about processing yourself is that you can trim out whatever needs to be. I trim anything remotely bloodshot and I haven’t had any issue. I also have not lost very much meat because they really do get 2-4” deep before blowing up.

AND THEY SHOOT!
Three shot groups at 200yds with 130VLDs and 156 EOL.

Would be interesting to see a comparison with other brands and types of bullet's carefully worked up in the same rifle!

 

[Doublecluck]

So now my next question is the ballistic coefficient, why is there 2 different ones? and how do you know which one your loading?

They put the advertised BC .659 on the .284 180 vld on the box, keep in mind Berger averages BC.

It’s important to keep in mind Berger makes lots of types of bullets, Classic hunter, hybrids, vlds, elite hunter, target . Etc. they don’t all perform the same on game.

 

[ImBillT]

So now my next question is the ballistic coefficient, why is there 2 different ones? and how do you know which one your loading?

A Balistic Coefficient is a comparison of the drag experienced by the projectile in question to the drag experienced by a reference projectile. Drag changes significantly with velocity. The way drag changes with changing velocity is highly dependent upon the shape of the object. The G1 reference projectile is shaped somewhat like a pistol bullet. It’s short and blunt. A streamlined rifle bullet experiences drag at different velocities that is so different from the G1 reference projectile that it’s G1 BC must be adjusted depending on what velocity the bullet is traveling at the moment in which you are interested(at the muzzle vs 500yds downrange). The G1 BC listed by a manufacturer could based on just about any velocity. In the case of Sierra, many of the bullets intended for long range shooting have multiple G1 BCs listed and the velocity at which it is valid. To calculate your trajectory you would use the BC listed that is closest to your muzzle velocity to begin with, then determine how far down range you were before you dropped to the velocity at which the next BC is given and so on, generating a piece-wise trajectory calculation. In the case of Berger, the G1 BC listed is an average of the true G1 BC over the velocity range the bullet would be expected to travel. For instance, the 155.5gr fullbore would almost certainly be being fired from a 30” .308Win at 2950-3050fps and be expected to travel 1000yds with an impact velocity somewhere around 1300ish fps while the 168 Classic Hunter would probably be fired from a 24” .308Win and only expected to travel 300-500yds, and 230gr Hybrid would often by fires from a large magnum and travel an extreme distance. In all three cases, the average G1 would be calculated based on very different velocities. If your application is close the whatever Berger expected, then you might get a pretty fair trajectory calculation using a G1 BC. If not, you could wind up quite a bit off. Some manufacturers just use the highest G1 BC they could achieve, even if in practice it was only valid for a few yards, or even only valid at velocities that most people never achieve. On the other hand, the G7 standard projectile is shaped like a modern rifle bullet. As a result, it experiences drag at different velocities much the same way that your rifle bullet does, and therefore the BC doesn’t have to be adjusted based on velocity. The bullet’s drag function closely matches the G7 reference projectile’s drag function, so only a single coefficient is needed regardless of velocity. The primary benefit of the G7 is that trajectories can be accurately calculated with relative ease. The secondary benefit is that companies cannot manipulate the BC. They must either lie, or correctly report it.

Short answer

ALWAYS USE THE G7 WHENEVER ONE IS AVAILABLE. Use it to calculate trajectory. Use it to compare bullets from different manufacturers AND from the same manufacturer due to the possibility of a different expected use. Berger only lists G1 so that you have some semblance of comparison against a bullet whose G7 is not available, and for anyone using a calculator that only accommodates a G1.

 

[mtmuley]

What are you referring to? No hunting shows have ever showcased nosler, barnes, or Hornady bullets?

I can dig up show titles if you want. The early ones clearly showcased the bullet. Basically just set up and shoot shit far away. Hunting was secondary. At least that's how I saw it. mtmuley

 

[ImBillT]

Would be interesting to see a comparison with other brands and types of bullet's carefully worked up in the same rifle!

That would be a really good way to wear it out. No rifle holds that level of accuracy too terribly long and that cartridge is middle of the road at best in terms of barrel life. If those were five shot groups, the smallest would be a world record, and if two more the size of the middle group were shot, it would be a world record five group aggregate.

I can tell you from experience that you won’t be getting results like that with very many bullets. Berger, Lapua, and a handful of small custom makers are the only ones you can count on to give you that without fliers unless things have changed. Last I followed competitive stuff, the guys shooting Sierra and Hornady were having to sort bullets to totally eliminate occasional fliers. Hornady’s new A-tip might be just as consistent. Lathe turned monos are also likely to be as good or better, but they have their own problems.

 

[Doublecluck]

A Balistic Coefficient is a comparison of the drag experienced by the projectile in question to the drag experienced by a reference projectile. Drag changes significantly with velocity. The way drag changes with changing velocity is highly dependent upon the shape of the object. The G1 reference projectile is shaped somewhat like a pistol bullet. It’s short and blunt. A streamlined rifle bullet experiences drag at different velocities that is so different from the G1 reference projectile that it’s G1 BC must be adjusted depending on what velocity the bullet is traveling at the moment in which you are interested(at the muzzle vs 500yds downrange). The G1 BC listed by a manufacturer could based on just about any velocity. In the case of Sierra, many of the bullets intended for long range shooting have multiple G1 BCs listed and the velocity at which it is valid. To calculate your trajectory you would use the BC listed that is closest to your muzzle velocity to begin with, then determine how far down range you were before you dropped to the velocity at which the next BC is given and so on, generating a piece-wise trajectory calculation. In the case of Berger, the G1 BC listed is an average of the true G1 BC over the velocity range the bullet would be expected to travel. For instance, the 155.5gr fullbore would almost certainly be being fired from a 30” .308Win at 2950-3050fps and be expected to travel 1000yds with an impact velocity somewhere around 1300ish fps while the 168 Classic Hunter would probably be fired from a 24” .308Win and only expected to travel 300-500yds, and 230gr Hybrid would often by fires from a large magnum and travel an extreme distance. In all three cases, the average G1 would be calculated based on very different velocities. If your application is close the whatever Berger expected, then you might get a pretty fair trajectory calculation using a G1 BC. If not, you could wind up quite a bit off. Some manufacturers just use the highest G1 BC they could achieve, even if in practice it was only valid for a few yards, or even only valid at velocities that most people never achieve. On the other hand, the G7 standard projectile is shaped like a modern rifle bullet. As a result, it experiences drag at different velocities much the same way that your rifle bullet does, and therefore the BC doesn’t have to be adjusted based on velocity. The bullet’s drag function closely matches the G7 reference projectile’s drag function, so only a single coefficient is needed regardless of velocity. The primary benefit of the G7 is that trajectories can be accurately calculated with relative ease. The secondary benefit is that companies cannot manipulate the BC. They must either lie, or correctly report it.

Short answer

ALWAYS USE THE G7 WHENEVER ONE IS AVAILABLE. Use it to calculate trajectory. Use it to compare bullets from different manufacturers AND from the same manufacturer due to the possibility of a different expected use. Berger only lists G1 so that you have some semblance of comparison against a bullet whose G7 is not available, and for anyone using a calculator that only accommodates a G1.

Lol I just realized what was being asked, Berger has changed some of their advertised BC’s over the years based on updated testing.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Berger and Creed threads are like catnip for the serial arguers, ha.