As I go thru a burned area or even those which haven’t quite reached that point, I get to use my discretion on which get cut down and those that don't, usually. If I don't believe a snag will go anywhere for the next couple years, or at least until the winter hits and knocks it down, if I don’t think it will stand that long, then I will take it out. I have come to the conclusion and this is what I teach those in the classes and on my crew. Sawyers on the fires are out there for only two reasons, one is to provide the crew and those working in the area for the next couple months with a good degree of safety from falling snags and dangers from above caused by these trees or hangers, also to make the job easier for the crew, nothing more. I push for no "Sport Cutting". That is where you drop some of the big ones just to see them hit the ground. That detracts from the second rule by making it harder for the crew and those coming thru in the near future by making them work around and thru the extra mess. And yes, Tyler, as Lance stated, it isn't as simple as you are trying to make it, just because it is still standing doesn’t mean it is still stable enough to leave. The big push thru out the fire industry for the last hand full of years has been for safety first, and every thing else second. It takes a good degree of knowledge on the subject and experience to be able to determine what is good and what is not, and it isn't an exact science. I take this end of my job very seriously, because of my experience level and knowledge of this subject, I can even over ride the biologists, if they just can't live not having a known danger nullified, we just don't take our crews in to those areas and will let it burn, or not get the work done they think they may need done. This is also a political hot potato a lot of times, depending on the situation and who deems that some thing needs to stay or go. You will see if you delve much into this aspect of life and how the world turns, just by the nature of what you have been training yourself into, you will get to see this first hand a lot as some of the others that do work in the outside for the Government agencies. Some times you are beating your head against the wall trying to make some one understand why or why not, and other times they think they are doing the same because they don't have the background to understand the whole picture. I will really enjoy watching you grow in this aspect, some of the ideals you have now will harden, and others you believe to be true now, will be shrugged off like an old coat and a new one put on...: D
Benefits Of Mining in North Idaho!!
- Thread starter Ithaca 37
- Start date
Ten Bears
New member
Well put ELKCHSR.
I can understand for the safety of the fire workers. I misunderstood and took the cutting to be for the protection of others that come later, even years later. If it is for the safety of those fighting fires...TIMBER! But if it is for my safety while hunting, then that is a risk I assume by entering a burned area.
Ten Bears
New member
When you hunt there, your on your own. But when there is work in the area, all "dangerous" snags are cut down. I don't know if your aware of it, but in some areas, any snag that poses a danger to a road is cut downas soon as it's identified.
Ten Bears
New member
AHH, the smell of saw gas in the morning. I'm a recreational sawyer myself.
I particularly like those "snags near the road. They make quick firewood cutting.
I particularly like those "snags near the road. They make quick firewood cutting.
I just got back from a saw class in Missoula put on by the head sawyer in Montana...I am now one of those that are at the top of the food chain in Montana as sawyers go. Working towards the top...This is one more step, this fall, I will be going after smoke jumping... and for those in the fire world that know what I am talking about, this summer I will be working towards 4 different bosses and a field observer, goal is to hit 2 bosses and the field observer...
Ten Bears
New member
Ambitous goals, go gettem, good luck.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Hey Elkchaser, you should also mention that theres only a few hundered, if not a few thousand, class C sawyers who work for the Forest Service. I've been certified myself, and it aint no big deal.
Oh, and if you want to smoke jump, you better start thinking about becoming real good friends with some other jumpers. They usually only hire other FS employees with lots of experience on either district or shot crews...you know initial attack folks. They typically dont hire, or even give a tryout to "mopshots" like yourself. In fact, most of the time, they hire only people they personally know.
Its all about connections and who you know...I'd have to guess you arent well enough connected to even get a tryout. Not slamming you or anything, just trying to help you out. Take the time to hangout with and if you get the chance, work your ass off with a jumper crew on a fire...sometimes they remember such things.
Oh, and if you want to smoke jump, you better start thinking about becoming real good friends with some other jumpers. They usually only hire other FS employees with lots of experience on either district or shot crews...you know initial attack folks. They typically dont hire, or even give a tryout to "mopshots" like yourself. In fact, most of the time, they hire only people they personally know.
Its all about connections and who you know...I'd have to guess you arent well enough connected to even get a tryout. Not slamming you or anything, just trying to help you out. Take the time to hangout with and if you get the chance, work your ass off with a jumper crew on a fire...sometimes they remember such things.
Yep Buzz, your right, about the "C" class sawyer, but you didn’t really look at what I wrote, as usual: rolleyes:
I said "C" Certifier, big difference and just a little tougher to get, especially when you have four Certifiers looking over your shoulder, including the saw coordinator for the NRCG taking notes. I did make it on the first try and didn't have to work on re-testing as most I understand have to. I have had my “C” for two years, and it was given to me by two individuals that are just as sour and mean tempered as you about private contractors, and others in the fire world that are not FS originated. I passed their test with flying colors and no bad marks, even with their prejudices, these things I have earned honestly, unlike some that have been given theirs because of friendships and alliances. I know that it just eats at your gizzard to think that there may be people in this world that are actually better at some things than you, but that is just the way it is, and yes, I do understand fully what and how you think any one that doesn’t wear the green uniform fits into the scheme of your shallow life, lets see-what was it you called all of us awhile back that basically didn’t start with the green uniform, OH YEA!!! “Scabs”!!! Yes that was the term used, kind of an ugly word, but understanding the source it fits your simple profile, this one word speaks volumes of your thoughts and feelings towards those you perceive as taking away what you believe should be the sole right of your organization, I would bet you don’t use those terms around people you actually have to answer to! I would suppose it would be frowned on a little. The funny thing is, that when you step out of the green uniform and became a “Contractor”, you make yourself one of us by the very nature of what you do, which puts you in this very same category as I, and I am LMAO at your obvious hypocrisy by your own actions, words and deeds…
Thanks for the advise about the smoke jumping, that is the same advise I have received, and already started working on from others, with out the obvious venom for what I have set forward as my goals, matter of fact, they were actually very happy to give me the info, so you were about a month and a half to late with that one, sorry. I'm not sure your last post wasn't meant to be snide, it sure looks like it and it is very typical that you just can't be happy for any one cept maybe your self, no matter how hard you try!!!
It amazes me that you will stay off the board for a couple weeks, then the first time you come back on, it is only to try and ridicule some one in your own shallow way, another fellow members(s)on the board, I see this as not having a very good home life, so you come here and take your frustrations and inadequacies out on others that you don’t even know, so as to exhibit a little superiority some where in such a meaningless existence.
Seems the only thing positive you come up with much any more is a few pics of some nice animals you or your wife get and a good story or two, otherwise it is just to be self-centered and very egotistical. Some day, maybe you will see the light, (I could only hope and pray) and actually come out of your dower old shell and become nicer, and a little more human. It's not a hard thing to do and you will actually notice others will find you a more pleasant to be around...
I said "C" Certifier, big difference and just a little tougher to get, especially when you have four Certifiers looking over your shoulder, including the saw coordinator for the NRCG taking notes. I did make it on the first try and didn't have to work on re-testing as most I understand have to. I have had my “C” for two years, and it was given to me by two individuals that are just as sour and mean tempered as you about private contractors, and others in the fire world that are not FS originated. I passed their test with flying colors and no bad marks, even with their prejudices, these things I have earned honestly, unlike some that have been given theirs because of friendships and alliances. I know that it just eats at your gizzard to think that there may be people in this world that are actually better at some things than you, but that is just the way it is, and yes, I do understand fully what and how you think any one that doesn’t wear the green uniform fits into the scheme of your shallow life, lets see-what was it you called all of us awhile back that basically didn’t start with the green uniform, OH YEA!!! “Scabs”!!! Yes that was the term used, kind of an ugly word, but understanding the source it fits your simple profile, this one word speaks volumes of your thoughts and feelings towards those you perceive as taking away what you believe should be the sole right of your organization, I would bet you don’t use those terms around people you actually have to answer to! I would suppose it would be frowned on a little. The funny thing is, that when you step out of the green uniform and became a “Contractor”, you make yourself one of us by the very nature of what you do, which puts you in this very same category as I, and I am LMAO at your obvious hypocrisy by your own actions, words and deeds…
Thanks for the advise about the smoke jumping, that is the same advise I have received, and already started working on from others, with out the obvious venom for what I have set forward as my goals, matter of fact, they were actually very happy to give me the info, so you were about a month and a half to late with that one, sorry. I'm not sure your last post wasn't meant to be snide, it sure looks like it and it is very typical that you just can't be happy for any one cept maybe your self, no matter how hard you try!!!
It amazes me that you will stay off the board for a couple weeks, then the first time you come back on, it is only to try and ridicule some one in your own shallow way, another fellow members(s)on the board, I see this as not having a very good home life, so you come here and take your frustrations and inadequacies out on others that you don’t even know, so as to exhibit a little superiority some where in such a meaningless existence.
Seems the only thing positive you come up with much any more is a few pics of some nice animals you or your wife get and a good story or two, otherwise it is just to be self-centered and very egotistical. Some day, maybe you will see the light, (I could only hope and pray) and actually come out of your dower old shell and become nicer, and a little more human. It's not a hard thing to do and you will actually notice others will find you a more pleasant to be around...
Ten Bears
New member
Well put.
