Ballistic Tips- Interesting discussion

[1_pointer]

I found this discussion to be interesting and thought I'd share. Mule Deer = John Barsness, the gun writer. I was suprised (pleasantly as I've only loaded 200gr BTs for my .338)at his comparision of the BTs and the 210gr Partition.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB5&Number=101661&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

 

[Delw]

Interesting... I bet the guys complainiung about them are piss poor shots.... Ive shot them and loved them, my dad has shot them and loved them... I have lots of friends that shot them and love them.... I have a few friends that shot them and complained... mainly cause the shot the wrong part of the deer and elk....

I have used them on big game in .243 and .300 win mag... no meat damage either
Delw

 

[danr55]

Interesting discussions.. My personal experience shows that the Ballistic Tip bullet is probably one of the better performers around. It's one of only two non-partition bullets I've used in the last 15 years. The other being a Hornady, 129 grain 6.5 caliber spitzer. The Hornady bullet failed.

 

[MLM]

#1- What are you hunting, plus shot placement.
#2-Where are you hunting heavy woods, open range, shot placement
#3-How accurate is your rifle, shot placement!
#4- Shot Placement, shot placement, shot placement!

Besides that , DanR and Dewl have it all called right, Except for the new Hornady SST. Nosler told me in person, the lowest 2 bullets in each weight are light skinned, and the heavier one are for game, but they like to say that for the 7MM up stuff! Had many talks with Nosler when working with them on the new 260 when it came out! I trust Nosler and Hornady, but I trust my shooting the most!
I will stay here and take my licking with wet noodle now!

Mike Murphy

 

[danr55]

Taking a beating... here we are with Murph stretched across the table waiting to be beat, and Waynes no where around....

Never fails... when you have a camera, the other guy is nowhere to be found.......

Murph, what is it with you and supplication lately?? No beatings for you.... Sorry..

 

[dgibson]

Flipper can say a thing or two about the performance of BT's out of a 300 WSM at the extreme distance of 10 feet...the does he shot at those extended ranges unfortunately can't. One of them even lost her stomach at the sight of it.

 

[Washington Hunter]

I shot an antelope a few weeks ago at just under 300 yards with a 270 and 150 grain Nosler BT's. He was broadside and I hit him just behind the shoulder. He dropped right there and never went anywhere. That was good, but what disappointed me was the fact that the bullet did not exit. All it hit was a rib and it apparently just blew up. At that range with a 270 I would think that the bullet would go all the way through. I just wonder what would happen if I hit an animal just a little too far back and it ran off...and left no blood trail. I'm thinking of switching to a little tougher bullet because of this.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 11-12-2002 23:20: Message edited by: Washington Hunter ]</font>

 

[danr55]

WH, That's an old argument and I have trouble understanding it.

To quote several other reports, "I recovered the animal and was disappointed to find that the bullet didn't exit." I don't understand the part about how that equates to a bullet failure.. The animal is dead and the bullet didn't exit. Would it be better if the bullet passed through and the animal ran off?

If you had hit a little further back, the bullet would not have hit the rib and it would have passed through and you would have had a tracking job on your hands.

 

[MLM]

In my short quick post , all I was saying is , we all hunt different sized game and in widely different terrain.
But for me , I put out a 1000 Lbs force, I want it all expended in the game I shoot at, not on some hill side behide the game! If we took our time and places the shoot where we want it, none of us should have any problems! I know there is always the odd off shot and I have had them also, but I want all the power I put out to expend itself in the game I shoot at.
DanR, I have WD at bay, it is about deer season and he needs me to help him find deer!

Mike Murphy

 

[Delw]

Washington hunter. I would say that bullet preformed like bullets were meant to preform.

That animal absorbed all the energy that what you want... If the bullet goes through the animal it doesnt absorb all the energy...

The .270 with a 150 grain BT is a great combination..... if you would have hit that antelope in the mid section you would have completely destoryed the inside of it, it might of ran 20 yards at best. Ive seen what a .300 winmag 180 grain BT does to elk when gut shot, the elk usually dies in less than 100 yards. the whole insides are destroyed including the lungs.....

BT's got a bad rap due to the fact they were made for varmits in the smaller calibers....
Delw

 

[BuzzH]

Man, I've read this same discussion so many times about the ballistic tips it almost makes me sick.

I've shot quite a few of them as well, and in my opinion they arent a proper big-game bullet.

The expend all the energy in the animal is a ridiculous theory and anybody that believes that shit is likely to also still believe in the tooth fairy, easter bunny etc.

The one question I always have with the bullet staying in the animal on a broadside shot theory is how can it still be expected to perform when a large bone is hit or when a raking shot is taken? That bullet simply can not perform in both cases.

The point is, any bullet that fails to exit on a broadside shot, even hitting ribs on each side, simply isnt enough bullet.

In a couple years time I killed a bull moose, 2 elk, one black bear, a dall sheep, and several deer with the 200 grain BT in the 338. I found they worked ok on deer and always exited, as well as the dall sheep. On the bear, elk, and moose I didnt get a single pass through. Luckily I had adequate snow on each of these otherwise tracking the two elk and the bear would have been a real pain in the ass. Hardly any blood flows through a 338 caliber hole and there was very little blood in all cases. I spined the moose so no tracking was required, but the bullet still didnt make it through the spine.

I had seen enough and I'll never shoot them again. Those bullets will cost you game unless you're a really good tracker and you never hit a big bone or take anything other than perfect broadside shots.

However, they are good varmit bullets and they are accurate.

 

[Delw]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>anybody that believes that shit is likely to also still believe in the tooth fairy, easter bunny<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WHOA WHOA back the truck up for a min there buzz.. Are you saying the easter bunny and tooth fairy isnt real???? I hope not cause I have seen them both And I can prove to you the tooth fairy is real cause I still have the quarter it left under my pillow 35 years ago.....


Delw

 

[MLM]

Buzz, I guess we can agree to disagree! I am from the old school of taking only a good shot! But I have moved into the 2002 and try and retry stuff , untill I am happy with it or not! I am not about to say all of anything is bad! Have a good day.
Mike Murphy

 

[Lostagain]

I have seen and shot the BT, like any of the others, I like parts of them and other times I don't like them at all. In the peashooters and the 300,they are great. In the 06 and 7mag...so-so, the nosler partitions are the better.

 

[danr55]

Let's see, one moose, two elk, one black bear, several deer, oh, and a dall sheep,,, all taken successfully. How many critters were lost because the bullet failed?



<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 11-13-2002 14:23: Message edited by: danr55 ]</font>

 

[Lostagain]

All of them?, none of them? a and c but not b and d.
OO Hell, I thought I was taking a test again and I hadn't studied, quit scaring me like that.

 

[BuzzH]

Danr, I didnt have to lose an animal to see the wreck that was going to take place. I used them things because I thought I needed them for the better trajectory when I went sheep hunting. I had a bunch loaded up so figured I'd just keep using them until I shot them up. It was kind of an unintended test run for the BT for me.

I will say this though, I'm unbiased on the report I just gave on those bullets. I also shot a good range of animals and so I feel comfortable about the statements I made about them.

I'm also 100 percent sure that I wont always stay away from large bones on elk, deer, etc. I feel I'm an average to slightly better than average rifle shot, but I also know I've hit shoulder bones, spines, etc. on many head of big-game. I've also taken some less than desirable shots on animals I wanted badly (raking shots, etc.) I know this going in and so I want and need a bullet that performs better than the ballistic tip. I wont pass a hard raking shot on a big bull after busting my ass all year for one shot. So, I need a bullet that will work all the time on all the shots I take.

From what I saw, the BT would for sure fail on many of the shots I've killed game deader than hell with, while using a partition. So, I dont find it necessary to lose animals to prove that a bullet sucks, I can tell that by how they performed on perfect hits.

But, if some people feel its necessary to lose a few or spend a couple days tracking wounded game to figure it out...so be it.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Dan,
The bullet didn't fail in that particular case, because the antelope was killed almost instantly and dropped immediately. I think I would use that same 150 grain bullet on antelope again, but for mule deer, and of course elk, I will be using a Swift A Frame or Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. An animal isn't always going to drop at the shot so I want an exit wound and lots of blood to follow.