Bad outfitter practices in central Montana.

[Irishman]

A couple of years ago I was talking to a bow hunter from out of state who paid for an outfitted elk hunt on private land in the White Sulphur Springs area in Montana. He wasn't very happy about something that happened during his hunt. He wounded an elk, and the outfitter told him not to follow the blood trail anymore that night, but to wait until morning. The next morning the outfitter told him that the elk wasn't wounded that bad and to just let it go. The hunter thought it was a pretty good blood trail, and wanted to follow it. He was then told not to as the elk was with the herd and it was approaching public land, and if they followed then the herd would go onto the public land.
Then I talked to a friend of mine who had hunted with an outfitter on private land (different outfitter) that year, also in the White Sulphur Springs area. He said that one of the other people hunting when he was there, had also shot a bull elk, with a good blood trail, and he wasn't allowed to follow it either. He was told that the elk had headed to their bedding area, and the outfitter didn't want to follow the wounded elk for fear of bumping them out of the bedding area and onto the adjacent public land.
I wonder how much of this type of behavior goes on. These are the same landowners that complain about how many elk are on their land, and want the harvest totals to increase. Maybe they don't know what the outfitters on their land are doing. So when elk get on private land during hunting season and stay there, it's partly because they are being managed to stay there.

 

[Hammsolo]

A couple of years ago I was talking to a bow hunter from out of state who paid for an outfitted elk hunt on private land in the White Sulphur Springs area in Montana. He wasn't very happy about something that happened during his hunt. He wounded an elk, and the outfitter told him not to follow the blood trail anymore that night, but to wait until morning. The next morning the outfitter told him that the elk wasn't wounded that bad and to just let it go. The hunter thought it was a pretty good blood trail, and wanted to follow it. He was then told not to as the elk was with the herd and it was approaching public land, and if they followed then the herd would go onto the public land.
Then I talked to a friend of mine who had hunted with an outfitter on private land (different outfitter) that year, also in the White Sulphur Springs area. He said that one of the other people hunting when he was there, had also shot a bull elk, with a good blood trail, and he wasn't allowed to follow it either. He was told that the elk had headed to their bedding area, and the outfitter didn't want to follow the wounded elk for fear of bumping them out of the bedding area and onto the adjacent public land.
I wonder how much of this type of behavior goes on. These are the same landowners that complain about how many elk are on their land, and want the harvest totals to increase. Maybe they don't know what the outfitters on their land are doing. So when elk get on private land during hunting season and stay there, it's partly because they are being managed to stay there.

Reminds me of Letica, the maker of your 5 gallon bucket, outside of Anaconda who has used his wealth to build quite the elk herd. He used to use Hummers and such to herd elk onto his property and keep them there.

 

[AggieHunter]

When I went with an outfitter on public land you could draw blood twice. After any shot was made and blood was found they would spend at least a full 24 hours or more looking for the bull. If they believed the bull was not going to be found they would allow for you to shot again if you choose.

 

[lastlight]

Sounds like wanton waste to me from all parties involved. Those clients should have just went ahead and tracked the bulls onto public land with or without the outfitter. Bet they didnt punch their tag and continued hunting?

 

[Hammsolo]

Sounds like wanton waste to me from all parties involved. Those clients should have just went ahead and tracked the bulls onto public land with or without the outfitter. Bet they didnt punch their tag and continued hunting?

Good point. The hunter is a paying customer, and still has a choice to make. We all should demand better.

 

[mtmuley]

When I went with an outfitter on public land you could draw blood twice. After any shot was made and blood was found they would spend at least a full 24 hours or more looking for the bull. If they believed the bull was not going to be found they would allow for you to shot again if you choose.

What? Punch your tag at the first lost elk. Jesus. Who is the outfitter?mtmuley

 

[AggieHunter]

Thats what I would do

 

[matt0550]

Good point. The hunter is a paying customer, and still has a choice to make. We all should demand better.

Paying customer or not, the hunter has an absolute OBLIGATION to follow up to a logical conclusion...whether you crush bedding or drive them on another parcel or not. Ethics...

 

[mtmuley]

Ethics...
[/QUOTE]
Once there is a bullet in an animal, it ain't the E word. It's responsibility. mtmuley

 

[matt0550]

Ethics...

Once there is a bullet in an animal, it ain't the E word. It's responsibility. mtmuley
[/QUOTE]
Agreed, I think I was making that exact point when I wrote "OBLIGATION" to follow

 

[mtmuley]

Once there is a bullet in an animal, it ain't the E word. It's responsibility. mtmuley

Agreed, I think I was making that exact point when I wrote "OBLIGATION" to follow
[/QUOTE]
So why the ethics reference? mtmuley

 

[Dougfirtree]

Sounds like the animals have become just a commodity for that outfitter. That's really sad.

 

[matt0550]

I think I was just driving at the fact that there is a moral code that should drive a person to do what they are obligated to in a given circumstance.

Ethics
noun

1. Moral principles that govern a person's behavior or the conducting of an activity.

 

[bennirio]

I have family that are guides for a private land outfitter. On their website and the paper work you recieve and sign says you agree "once you have drawn blood you DO NOT fire at another animal." It's ridiculous that this is an issue. But then again nothing should suprise me anymore. Best remedy I believe is teaching the next generation proper hunting ethics. Humans for the most part learn their behaviors.

 

[SFC B]

We have had the same outfitter get busted twice in our area. First, herding elk off of public and onto private using ranch hands on horse back. Second time was using the same ranch hands on horse back and in trucks to keep elk ON the ranch (different year) and push toward the "hunters". The last one cost them their RFW status......which would affect the cow and deer hunting more than bulls as it is an OTC gmu. I guess it is something.....but they are still making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year off of hunting.

 

[Jwill]

After having watched some guys put on an elk drive with horses and atvs in WY, pushing a herd way off any semblance of accessible land, I’m not a bit surprised by this story.

 

[300stw]

good friend of mine hunting with a oufitter around the musselshell, exact same story, shot bull, bull went to bedding area, cant follow, elk will leqve ranch, onto public, kept hunting didnt get another bull but did get his horns, he seen same scenario few different times that he hunted there

 

[sneakypete]

This is a classic scum bag outfitter! I would had called FWP and reported him! I’ve used the same outfitter twice in BC, in the contract if you draw blood it’s yours and the crew will make every effort to retrieve your animal. It’s called Ethics!

 

[Irishman]

In both cases that I mentioned, it wasn't that the hunters didn't want to keep looking, it was that they were told by the guide/outfitter that they weren't allowed to. By the way, these are the only two times that I have talked to someone who has hunted through an outfitter on private land here in Montana. One guy had it happen to him, and the other guy witnessed it happen to someone else. Could be just a fluke that the only two people I talked to witnessed this, but 300stw had it happen to a friend too, so if I had to guess then I would say that this is a common practice. I would never pay an outfitter to hunt, but I could see where a hunt with an outfitter in the wilderness could be a great experience, however these guided hunts on private land where clients pay lots of money to hunt is just asking for trouble, and for unethical/illegal activities like this to happen. As far as the hunters involved goes, I would say that they were at fault in not reporting these activities to FWP.

 

[1100RemingtonMan]

If I wounded a animal Guide or no Guide I would follow it up. It just what you do. I have had people with me Duck hunting numerous time and we have shot a Duck and it flew 1/4 to 1/2 a mile and folded up or glided in and I told people with me I was going to retrieve it and to a Man I have been told I had no chance of finding it. But you want to know something I find 9 out of 10 of them and with out a dog. How experience as I have hunted waterfowl over fourty years.
I hunt deer in Iowa and with either a Shotgun or my muzzle loader most need to be tracked after the shot, some a very short distance some further and it always amazes me how far a Deer can run with a shot out heart or double lung shot. Not saying they all do but some can go a long way.