AZ OTC archery unit closure proposals.

[FlatlanderAZ]

Assuming these numbers are correct it’s more like 20%

AZ Archery Deer #’s

Earlier this year I requested information on the number of archery deer hunters in AZ (otc) for the past several years. Below are the results: 2018 2019 2020 Dealer sales- RES 20,832...

www.hunttalk.com

And increased 50% in two years. It’s definitely a growing challenge.

 

[AZBridger]

The closure to 27 hits me hard as my family owns a ranch in the unit and we spend a LOT of time archery deer hunting. It will really suck to not be able to chase deer out of the front door anymore BUT something did need to be done and although torn, I do agree with it. we have seen a MASSIVE decline in deer numbers over the last 5-6 years and it is sad to watch. All of my honey holes have all but dried up. I run a few cameras and went from multiple nice deer on every camera and extremely frequent photos to basically zero photos of deer anymore. some of my best camera spots might go a month or more without a single visitor. The extreme drought is definitely not helping, nor is the amount of OTC hunters, nor is the unchecked predator population. I am not blaming it all on NR hunters but there has been a huge increase in NR's in 27 in the same time frame. Some of the influx of hunters is due to the neighboring unit going away from OTC deer a few years ago. People are going to hunt. Closing one unit to OTC hunts will just push hunters into other OTC units that will be impacted greatly. I think a BIG factor in AZ's deer population that is being overlooked is the mountain lion quota that was placed into affect 4-5 years ago. People have stopped shooting female lions because they do not want the unit to close. You cannot keep a population of predators in check by letting females go. if you have 50 males to 50 females, the females will all be bred. If you have 10 males to 50 females, the females will still all be bred. Drought+More hunters+higher success+more mountain lions=Far fewer deer. The deer in most of Arizona are in a tough spot and I'm glad to see the G&F finally addressing some of it but the proposed changes this year are just a baby step. It will hurt all of us hunters but they need to eliminate more OTC hunts across the state, reduce rifle tags and up the lion quota, making changes to one unit helps that specific unit but will hurt other units.

 

[FlatlanderAZ]

The closure to 27 hits me hard as my family owns a ranch in the unit and we spend a LOT of time archery deer hunting. It will really suck to not be able to chase deer out of the front door anymore BUT something did need to be done and although torn, I do agree with it. we have seen a MASSIVE decline in deer numbers over the last 5-6 years and it is sad to watch. All of my honey holes have all but dried up. I run a few cameras and went from multiple nice deer on every camera and extremely frequent photos to basically zero photos of deer anymore. some of my best camera spots might go a month or more without a single visitor. The extreme drought is definitely not helping, nor is the amount of OTC hunters, nor is the unchecked predator population. I am not blaming it all on NR hunters but there has been a huge increase in NR's in 27 in the same time frame. Some of the influx of hunters is due to the neighboring unit going away from OTC deer a few years ago. People are going to hunt. Closing one unit to OTC hunts will just push hunters into other OTC units that will be impacted greatly. I think a BIG factor in AZ's deer population that is being overlooked is the mountain lion quota that was placed into affect 4-5 years ago. People have stopped shooting female lions because they do not want the unit to close. You cannot keep a population of predators in check by letting females go. if you have 50 males to 50 females, the females will all be bred. If you have 10 males to 50 females, the females will still all be bred. Drought+More hunters+higher success+more mountain lions=Far fewer deer. The deer in most of Arizona are in a tough spot and I'm glad to see the G&F finally addressing some of it but the proposed changes this year are just a baby step. It will hurt all of us hunters but they need to eliminate more OTC hunts across the state, reduce rifle tags and up the lion quota, making changes to one unit helps that specific unit but will hurt other units.

Hey Bridger, you can still hunt out the doorstep if you draw right? Going to a draw doesn’t eliminate the opportunity, it just changes it.

What do you think of making hunters pick a weapon (either archery otc or apply for rifle) instead of going to a unit specific draw? Seems like there are a lot of options between going from otc unlimited to full draw-only.

 

[MTGomer]

What do you think of making hunters pick a weapon (either archery otc or apply for rifle) instead of going to a unit specific draw?

I could support that. draw a tag, no otc hunting.

 

[FlatlanderAZ]

I could support that. draw a tag, no otc hunting.

And if you do archery, you can’t get a bonus point.

 

[LaSportsman]

I wonder how much of this is tied to current drought? I'm fine with a year to year decision based on annual rain and prior year harvest rates to manage population.

 

[rustednuts]

The closure to 27 hits me hard as my family owns a ranch in the unit and we spend a LOT of time archery deer hunting. It will really suck to not be able to chase deer out of the front door anymore BUT something did need to be done and although torn, I do agree with it. we have seen a MASSIVE decline in deer numbers over the last 5-6 years and it is sad to watch. All of my honey holes have all but dried up. I run a few cameras and went from multiple nice deer on every camera and extremely frequent photos to basically zero photos of deer anymore. some of my best camera spots might go a month or more without a single visitor. The extreme drought is definitely not helping, nor is the amount of OTC hunters, nor is the unchecked predator population. I am not blaming it all on NR hunters but there has been a huge increase in NR's in 27 in the same time frame. Some of the influx of hunters is due to the neighboring unit going away from OTC deer a few years ago. People are going to hunt. Closing one unit to OTC hunts will just push hunters into other OTC units that will be impacted greatly. I think a BIG factor in AZ's deer population that is being overlooked is the mountain lion quota that was placed into affect 4-5 years ago. People have stopped shooting female lions because they do not want the unit to close. You cannot keep a population of predators in check by letting females go. if you have 50 males to 50 females, the females will all be bred. If you have 10 males to 50 females, the females will still all be bred. Drought+More hunters+higher success+more mountain lions=Far fewer deer. The deer in most of Arizona are in a tough spot and I'm glad to see the G&F finally addressing some of it but the proposed changes this year are just a baby step. It will hurt all of us hunters but they need to eliminate more OTC hunts across the state, reduce rifle tags and up the lion quota, making changes to one unit helps that specific unit but will hurt other units.

The restrictions on predator hunting I think are causing a big decline especially with the drought concentrating prey. I’d like to see it opened up. Seems like lions are everywhere now.

 

[Si5]

The restrictions on predator hunting I think are causing a big decline especially with the drought concentrating prey. I’d like to see it opened up. Seems like lions are everywhere now.

There is no 10% for otc tags only Draw tags that's why we have a high success
they got to put the otc tags to a Draw to get the 10 % cap .If they don't we got just as many Nr can get as many tags as us residents and that's wrong. If they go through with this it just put more Nr pressure on resident hunters .The amount of NR getting otc tags has gone up over 135% since 2013 the only way to fix it to go toa Draw .We are one of the only state that gives otc tags for deer that's why they are coming over here and the guides and azgf are the ones promoting it check the web .

 

[rustednuts]

There is no 10% for otc tags only Draw tags that's why we have a high success
they got to put the otc tags to a Draw to get the 10 % cap .If they don't we got just as many Nr can get as many tags as us residents and that's wrong. If they go through with this it just put more Nr pressure on resident hunters .The amount of NR getting otc tags has gone up over 135% since 2013 the only way to fix it to go toa Draw .We are one of the only state that gives otc tags for deer that's why they are coming over here and the guides and azgf are the ones promoting it check the web .

There is no way to put a 10% cap on an OTC hunt is that isn't quotaed. AZGFD also made it clear that their guidelines require that archery harvest account for only 20% of the deer in that unit. Since they can't increase rifle opportunity the only option is to cut archery. Changing that 20% is the key to reopening the OTC whitetail.

 

[Si5]

There is no way to put a 10% cap on an OTC hunt is that isn't quotaed. AZGFD also made it clear that their guidelines require that archery harvest account for only 20% of the deer in that unit. Since they can't increase rifle opportunity the only option is to cut archery. Changing that 20% is the key to reopening the OTC whitetail.

 

[Si5]

I'm an not talking about the % of harvest I'm talking about the # of Nr getting otc tags for deer; there is no way of controlling the number of Nr getting these tags with out a putting the archery tags to a Draw you can then put a 10% cap on Nr .I agree that if the harvest is above the 20% they should cut opportunity but right now that don't cut the amount of Nr coming over here the only way to do this s to go to Draw hunt like most other states do right now .

 

[greaseywater]

I'm an not talking about the % of harvest I'm talking about the # of Nr getting otc tags for deer; there is no way of controlling the number of Nr getting these tags with out a putting the archery tags to a Draw you can then put a 10% cap on Nr .I agree that if the harvest is above the 20% they should cut opportunity but right now that don't cut the amount of Nr coming over here the only way to do this s to go to Draw hunt like most other states do right now .

According to the state's OTC tag numbers (thanks @rustednuts), the total number of NR OTC tags has increased from ~1300 to ~3200 since 2007 statewide. The res OTC tags have increased from ~21000 to ~ 27000 in the same time. While the rate of increase in the NR is larger, NR are still far outnumbered by residents. Both in total numbers and in the total increase since 2007 attributable to each group.

By chance, NR OTC is right at 10% in 2020, which is the cap you mentioned. Maybe it will be more next year. But if there is a crowding issue on OTC hunts, it's the resident hunters that are more likely the cause.

 

[rustednuts]

I'm an not talking about the % of harvest I'm talking about the # of Nr getting otc tags for deer; there is no way of controlling the number of Nr getting these tags with out a putting the archery tags to a Draw you can then put a 10% cap on Nr .I agree that if the harvest is above the 20% they should cut opportunity but right now that don't cut the amount of Nr coming over here the only way to do this s to go to Draw hunt like most other states do right now .

Why do you want the OTC hunts as a draw though? Most of the hunts would then take multiple points to draw and opportunity is gone. Staying OTC but adjust the percent harvested by archery affords more opportunity to more hunters a win for all.

 

[Si5]

There is no way to put a 10% cap on an OTC hunt is that isn't quotaed. AZGFD also made it clear that their guidelines require that archery harvest account for only 20% of the deer in that unit. Since they can't increase rifle opportunity the only option is to cut archery. Changing that 20% is the key to reopening the OTC whitetail.

Because the azgf in some units in there infield checks they checked as many Nr as residents right now there is no way of controlling that and that is creating conflict between Nr and resident hunters.

Why do you want the OTC hunts as a draw though? Most of the hunts would then take multiple points to draw and opportunity is gone. Staying OTC but adjust the percent harvested by archery affords more opportunity to more hunters a win for all.

 

[Si5]

I'm for as much opportunity

Why do you want the OTC hunts as a draw though? Most of the hunts would then take multiple points to draw and opportunity is gone. Staying OTC but adjust the percent harvested by archery affords more opportunity to more hunters a win for all.

At some point you trade opportunity for the quality of the hunt.Try going to Nv ,Col,Ut,Cal,Nm for Nr otc deer tag And you well find that they did it to preserve the quality of the hunt and they all have more deer than AZ.You must be a Nr of Az.

 

[rustednuts]

I'm for as much opportunity

At some point you trade opportunity for the quality of the hunt.Try going to Nv ,Col,Ut,Cal,Nm for Nr otc deer tag And you well find that they did it to preserve the quality of the hunt and they all have more deer than AZ.You must be a Nr of Az.

No I live in the valley and enjoy the opportunity to hunt a bunch units nearby and hunt javelina with a bow on a draw at the same time. OTC deer isn’t a quality hunt by definition. There are plenty of spots to get away from people, you have to work and get off the roads.

 

[Si5]

At some time you will maybe sooner than later. Then maybe you will change your mind.

 

[MTGomer]

The regs are posted.

I find it a little strange how units go from OTC in January to no hunt in January. I would sure think they could have a limited draw in January. Sacrifice some gen rifles tags to make it happen, if that’s what it takes, would be my preference.

 

[Blackcats06]

The regs are posted.

I find it a little strange how units go from OTC in January to no hunt in January. I would sure think they could have a limited draw in January. Sacrifice some gen rifles tags to make it happen, if that’s what it takes, would be my preference.

Your preference doesn't matter! What matters is the hunt guidelines that the gf has to go by. And in those guidelines they cant do a draw in January. The guidelines are about up so you could give your preference on what you would like to see for 2024 through 2029

 

[LaSportsman]

Extreme drought this year. Likely just need fewer deer killed draw and OTC.